Why do some people think like this?

our society has reached a point where people can go about their daily lives feeling very supperior in using technology that they do not understand. I think one day there will be few people left that are actually knowledgeable.
I was told at work that I'm sad for knowing that rechargeable batteries have a 3 yr shelf life, ok great so that pillac is quite free to go and buy "pre"knackered batteries !
I'm laughed at for my hobby but as it happens I'm doing something more constructive with my time. I've learnt a lot and done it all on my own.

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I can relate.
I have spent a great deal of my life with a general fascination with how things work and especially with alternative energy.
I figure I will have spent about $6000 - $7000 over my life time learning about wind, solar and alternative fuels and designing systems that use them on my own time. I also figure that for about $2000 - $3000 more I will be totally energy independent for both heat and electricity within a year or less now.

Most people tell me that was a total waste because I have very little to show for it and then argue with me about how much electricity and heating fuel I could have bought with that.
Well to be honest that would cover about 4 very conservative years at best. Or the cost equivalent of around just over 2 years of how I actually live had I needed to pay for all the heat I get for free from my home made wood burning boiler system and the money I wouldnt save from having propane power on my pickup.

Still many of the people who hear that ask me how much will I make off of living that way. Well I dont make anything and never will.
So why do it? Is the next common question.
To me its simple avoided cost. For that $10K I will get to live my energy consuming modern life style with nearly no financial outlay and no negative environmental impact for the heating fuel and electricity for as long as I choose and am able to do so.

Most people cant even begin to relate to how thats even possible so it just cant possibly be true.

I think most of the crews roofing houses are clueless about the engineering that goes into a roof. Goods ones can replace the shingles without leaks. People do not want to pay a lot of money for this sort of work. So there is little or no engineering background.

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Unfortunately around here and in most other places if your a mild drug user, drunk, or of questionable morals and work ethics you typically work for a roofer or general home construction contractor.

I and my brother have friends who are in these lines of work and some are admittedly meth heads, pot smokers, drunks, and worse.
Those who aren't are the token piss test guys that are there to make sure that when a 'random urine sample' is needed that there are enough clean people around to make sure the company passes inspection.

Sadly in many construction jobs all you need to know is wear your safety gear if OSHA is around and dont pull the trigger on the air nailer if you have it pressed against yourself.
Still some apparently have to test that and find out why though. Every year oneor more contractors has a story to tell about some new guy shooting himself in the arm or leg with the roofing nailer or framing gun.

To be an average construction worker your IQ doesn't even need to even get close to being three digits! If it is you quickly become a site supervisor or create your own construction company.

tytower said:

When you know more about it there is a very heavy body of knowledge required to roof a house. Anyone can lay floor tiles but only a specialist can tell you if its a good job or not . Why do you put these so called trades down .

The point being,you do not understand the depth of knowledge required to roof your house properly with pitch ,eave length ,air flow requirements, material qualities ,access,insulation etc. So why should someone from another field of expertise know such detail about your speciality?

If you really question yourself you will see the insides of others

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Huh? Don't pick and choose my sentences. I stated quite clearly that any trade is an art, a craft, and requires talent and skill. I even stated that roofing and tile work are admirable when the craftsman takes pride in what he does. That was the point of my thread, I don't look down upon others. But FYI, I have roofed houses in my day, and I do know that the labor part of it requires little skill at all, and often vagrants are hired by roofing companies on per-day cash basis as long as they show up for work.

But I wholeheartedly agree that the planning and design of a roof structure is just as a technical challenge which I do not demean in the slightest.

I used them as examples not because of what I think, but rather because of the preconceptions that others have about construction workers, which shows general ignorance all the way around. But thanks for proving my point!

As far as roofing, there are the engineers (architects) that design the house, then there are those that put it together (construction).

Electronics have the engineers that design the schematics, and the assembly workers that put the boards together.

The engineer is skilled and learned (or at least should be) the construction/assembly worker is little more than human robot working from instructions. It's like this in every profession.

ke5frf said:

I'm making a general observation here, a recent thread on this site got me thinking about this.

Why is it that some people have no respect for or understanding of what it takes to be good or knowledgeable at certain things?

Take electronics for example. I consider myself a reasonably smart person. I have a good comprehension ability when it comes to the field. But this has come with a lot of study and practical experience as well as tinkering. I didn't just walk into Radio Shack one day and buy a bunch of components and build a television set from scratch McGyver style.

Even in my early stages, when I first got interested, I bought and read several books and read them front to back more than once to take it all in...and even then I had more questions than answers at times.

But some people think electronics is no more complicated than roofing a house or laying floor tiles. Sometimes arrogantly so. Seems like some people just think any kind of mechanical work is for baffoons, something a monkey can do.

What is it that makes people so ignorant?

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I call that Highlander Syndrome.

Today everything you want you can find by googling "XXX schematics". For newbies it causes mind laziness, because the ease to find information hides all the hardwork behind projecting a circuit, for example:

I've already heard: "I've built a super duper electronics lab with 2000 experiments, so I'm experienced."...
Well, to follow the instructions manuals and experiments manual is one thing.
To project the lab and create the experiments is another thing.

ke5frf said:

Huh? Don't pick and choose my sentences. I stated quite clearly that any trade is an art, a craft, and requires talent and skill. I even stated that roofing and tile work are admirable when the craftsman takes pride in what he does. That was the point of my thread, I don't look down upon others. But FYI, I have roofed houses in my day, and I do know that the labor part of it requires little skill at all, and often vagrants are hired by roofing companies on per-day cash basis as long as they show up for work.

But I wholeheartedly agree that the planning and design of a roof structure is just as a technical challenge which I do not demean in the slightest.

I used them as examples not because of what I think, but rather because of the preconceptions that others have about construction workers, which shows general ignorance all the way around. But thanks for proving my point!

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Hmm I phrased that poorly .I was not having a shot at you or criticising you but rather pointing you to consider it from the other guys point of view Let me try again

Every Trade has some members who are just baggage . Similarly it has members who are specialists. These are the people I mean . Try to do a thatched roof yourself . Even a tiled roof deigned and built from scratch is challenging . Try to build a cathedral roof , a belltower roof or a dome roof and you will see the specialists skills.

Lay tiles yourself and see if you get them straight in all three dimensions. See if they stay put for 50 years. Lay slate or marble and see how you go . These tradesmen are probably equal or better to your skill level, but (the important point) you dont think it through that deeply enough to realise that and there normally isn't a need to do that until you make statements like in your original post.

On the same note, there are people who have been doing something for years that are still crappy at it. Experience is only as good as your own ambition.

And you can only get experience if you are able to learn from your errors.

there are people who have been doing something for years that are still crappy at it.

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you can only get experience if you are able do learn from your errors.

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I have worked with these types of people. These two statements say so much about them.

They feel they are the best at what they do so anything that goes wrong is obviously someone else's fault which in turn gives them no perceived errors of their own to ever need learn from! The worst part is many of these types of people are not actually lazy either. They are ambitious and often super motivated. Getting the job done their way is more important than getting it done right!

I think thats because not they think its simple. They do not know how deep it is. When a problem comes up things will get change.