Willing to try different PIC programming method...

[Souper man]

Well I got 8 Free samples from microchip, and I am now willing to try again with microcontrollers. I am also going to my HS robotics meeting, and I will see how they program their chips. I could just use their programmer and stuff. It is somthing wrong with the computer, because I have had troubles with this computer for a while. I am going to see what they use and stuff and see what I can do with it. The point of this thread is to list other methods of programming a PIC, more specifically a 16F628A. I am going to use this because of its built in oscilliator, which will make it easier. I will also need a programmer, one that can plug into a 9pin, 25pin or USB port. Thanks!

 

[justDIY]

there is only one method to program the modern day pic, and that is serially, aka ICSP. you can do it high voltage or low voltage. High voltage is more popular, because it will always work, regardless of how screwed up the PIC is. It also doesn't require any pins to be strictly reserved for programming.

use the forum search feature - it's pretty obvious the ICD2 and MPLAB is the most popular software method for programming pics. the ICD2 comes in either db9 or usb flavors, same for its clones. Bill's Inchworm series is based on the Microchip ICD2 and is very nice.

 

[3v0]

Maybe I got this wrong but I seem to recall that you were going to do a low voltage cable to program a PIC16F877a to use in an ICD2 ?

 

[skyhawk]

Tait style with Nigel's software. You can build or buy one from Sparkfun. Or a PicKit 2, buy from Newark and have it in a couple days.

Internal oscillator and Vpp as input requires a programmer that can do Vpp before Vdd. The above programmers can.

 

[Souper man]

Yeah, I was going to use a 877A with a LVP cable, but I know now the benefits of a high voltage programmer. I may still try to get my LVP working and put a bootloader on it, to build myself a ICD2. Still thinking.

 

[3v0]

Yeah, I was going to use a 877A with a LVP cable, but I know now the benefits of a high voltage programmer. I may still try to get my LVP working and put a bootloader on it, to build myself a ICD2. Still thinking.

Check out the programmers on sparkfun. I think they go as low as $10 or $15. They also have the schematics on their website.

The thing you need to keep in mind is that even with a working programmer it is not always easy.

Here is somthing to think about. There is no great need for a programer till you learn to program in Assembler C or Basic. You can get a lot of mileage out of the simulator while learning to program. It is much faster then trying to debug a real target.

 

[justDIY]

*rant warning*

avoid the programmers on sparkfun, unless it is their icd2 clone, which is a good value... all the various "soft programmers" are a major waste of time.

most of them were designed during the cold war era and rely on the host pc to do all the work, generating very specific timing sequences. these sequences get harder and harder to generate with every new version of windows that comes out, and well as general advances in computing technology.

I started out with sparky's $15 JDM based programmer, and wasted so much time getting it to work right. It didn't like my then pentium 4 system running xp, so I had an older 586 running windows 98. it was still iffy. The last time I used it was to load TinyBLD on the pic of my 18F452 prototyping board, and then the programmer was tossed in the junk box. I finally upgraded to a true hardware based programmer, and couldn't believe the difference. It works like a champ on all my computers, it even works in a virtual machine running windows on a unix server.

learning microchip assembler is hard enough, don't add to the frustration by using a shoddy programmer. invest in a good one now, and save yourself a lot of aggravation.

 

[skyhawk]

I have a Tait style from Sparkfun that's run fine on Windows 2000 and XP using Nigel's software. Never the slightest problem.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

I started out with sparky's $15 JDM based programmer, and wasted so much time getting it to work right.

Don't knock all programmers based on your experience with a JDM, even the author admits it's got serious problems, relying as it does on the PC serial port to be above RS232 specification. It's a very clever ingenious design - but that's it's failing, it's designed to be clever and ingenious, and NOT for reliability and repeatability.

This is the reason that WinPicProg only supports parallel port programmers, even though adding serial support would have been pretty trivial - but I didn't want the massive support problems caused by supporting a programmer design that you know already has problems.

 

[Souper man]

Ok, so I should use sparkfuns $15 ICD2 programmer or what?

What about software (software issue may not be a problem, because I am going to my HS robotic meeting and going to see what they use, then I could connect the programmer up and start programmin)?

Really, the main focus is the programmer (must be able to program 16F877A, 16F628A, and 16F876A, if not at least the 628A or 877A)

 

[Souper man]

I saw this cheap one and it supports all of my chips:
https://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8

 

[justDIY]

I saw this cheap one and it supports all of my chips:
https://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8

no, that's the crappy JDM programmer

this is the one Nigel talks about, the ad even mentions his name!

https://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=7

 

[Souper man]

what was wrong with the JDM programmer?

 

[3v0]

Here are some things to think about. This is not so much black and white as shades of gray.

If you had the $15 serial programmer you could use it to program the bootloader into a 16F877A and build a ICD2 clone. An ICD2 of some sort should be your end goal. It is a great programmer.

The sparkfun $15 programmer has the advantage that is is built and should work out of the box. I have one and it did. But given that your computer is questionable you may have problems. At least you would know it was not the hardware. Would work better on a 10 year old Win89 machine (clean install). If you try you should be able to find one for free.

Given that you are new to this (and a few of your other posts) there is a good chance you will have problems regardless of what programmer you choose. Better to start with know good hardware.

The Parallel Programmer with ICSP is a better unit then the Serial Port Programmer - Socketed. None of the serial port problems. That puts you within $10 of an inchworm kit, But then we are back to not knowing if the hardware is working.

You could go back and get that very simple low voltage programming cable working. Then build an ICD2.

If you want to skip right to a modern programmer get an inchworm or inchworm+ kit. When it comes to ICD2's I like the kit or DIY route. They tend to die from time to time and you stand a better chance of repairing a kit or DIY unit.

I hope that helped.

I think I said this earlier. Start learning assembler with MPLAB and the simulator that comes with it. Once you tackle that looking at a programmer makes more sense !

 

[Souper man]

Thanks for your help! I am going to try to get a different computer and get MPLAB working on it.