World's cheapest car..

crusty said:

2 strokes suck, but they are good in high rpm small single engine use, like RC cars and chainsaws.

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You obviously know nothing about two strokes, they commonly run at much lower RPM than four stokes, and provide much more power.

I've had various two stroke bikes, and their performance is amazing - you can leave Porsches and Ferraris standing up tp about 80 or 90 mph.

There's nothing 'magic' about a two stroke, they simply throw more fuel in the engine to get the higher performance - my 380cc Suzuki was a triple, with three carbs, each one had a main jet bigger then the single carb on a 1600cc car engine!. Only 380cc, but you could EASILY get under 30 mpg out of it.

The fastest accelerating production bike was the Kawasaki 750cc two stroke triple, and I once happened to read the letters page of a magazine that had reviewed it the month before - so I don't know what they said, but the writer of the letter was insensed about their fuel consumption figures, claiming that he "regularly got 12 mpg out of his". Fearsome bikes, you probably got 12 pairs of new underwear per gallon as well!

As for engine revs, red line on my 380cc Suzuki was 8,000, on a 400cc Honda 4 stroke it was 12,000 revs - I won't discuss fuel economy though!.

Nigel Goodwin said:

You obviously know nothing about two strokes, they commonly run at much lower RPM than four stokes, and provide much more power.

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the ones i've worked with all seem to have a higher RPM rating then 4 cyclers, lighter counterweights and more combustion.

I agree with 2 strokes being higher revving - I've had a few in my time and they have had redlines between 12k and 14k rpm.

The 4 stroke bikes I've had have topped out at around 7k rpm max.

My four stroke Honda redlines at 10.5k and my brother's Yammaha Fazer 600 red lines at 14k.

picbits said:

I agree with 2 strokes being higher revving - I've had a few in my time and they have had redlines between 12k and 14k rpm.

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Must have been small ones?.

The 4 stroke bikes I've had have topped out at around 7k rpm max.

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Sounds more like a lawnmower?

To be fair, that's the sort of redline you get from a big single, like an XT500.

My last bike was a Yamaha DT400 (two stoke single enduro), that redlined at 7k.

Aye - they were all smallish (<350cc) single pot two strokes and single pot 4 strokes.

I remember my newly built de-restricted 125 on our first run. My mate pulled off and it slowly built up to around 5000rpm when he found out what a "power band" was the hard way.

Shame a head on colision with a white van put paid to my biking days

picbits said:

Aye - they were all smallish (<350cc) single pot two strokes and single pot 4 strokes.

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I was thinking of much smaller two strokes than that, usually about 8000 revs on those sizes.

It's a dirt cheap imitation of the Mercedes Smart Car, an overpowered golf cart. It would not stand up to any collision, if it was made like the Trabant ( former Yugoslavia) - a car so toxic it was to die for.

The Smart Car is suprisingly strong - it survives crash tests a lot better than many other larger cars.

Unfortunately the crumple zones are so small the occupants decelerate rather quickly in high speed impacts so the car survives suprisingly intact but the occupants don't ......

shokjok said:

if it was made like the Trabant ( former Yugoslavia) - a car so toxic it was to die for.

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sorry mate, I have to correct you here, Trabant was made by East Germany. AFAIK it was plastic body on steel chassis. Was popular in all "east" countries including former yu, but manufactured by East Germany in town near Czechoslovakian border, Zvikov or something like that was the name of the town...

arhi said:

sorry mate, I have to correct you here, Trabant was made by East Germany. AFAIK it was plastic body on steel chassis. Was popular in all "east" countries including former yu, but manufactured by East Germany in town near Czechoslovakian border, Zvikov or something like that was the name of the town...

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There's a guy about 15 miles from me who collects them, last I heard the local council were taking legal action against him for having so many - it's made the national news a number of times.

collecting trabants people really collect strange things ...
there is a local folk song about trabant that is eaten by pigs, locally it is synonym for "bad car"

Hero999 said:

My sister's car turns out 60bhp and it has a 1.2L engine.

My bike kicks out 57bhp and only has a 500cc engine.

It depends on the compression ratio and a good engine management system helps too.

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Maybe so, but I bet your sister's car churns out more torque and torque is what accomplishes work or motion... while horsepower is the energy behind it.

BTW, my Maico MX bike developed 52hp from a 249cc 2-stroke .... I'd say your 500cc was quite de-tuned!

That's true but her car takes 16 seconds to get to 60mph and bike bike gets the job done in 5.2s.

A sports car and a jet fighter had an accelleration race. The sports car launched way ahead of the jet but when the jet caught up and passed the car the jet was almost at the speed of sound.

you want to have torque for acselaration but the problem is also get it on the road

a motor bike with a lot of torque and wrong gearing will only have spinning wheelys but doesn't get that much acseleration

so its a combination of 2

if you have a lot of torque you can have a bigger gearing so in the first part of a sprint you will loose it from the car motorbike that ha smore horsepower and revs harder but when you change to the second gear they switched already 2 times more to keep their smaller torque in the power band

its a totaly different style of driving and it depents on the circuit what you will need to win the race

Robert-Jan

HiTech said:

BTW, my Maico MX bike developed 52hp from a 249cc 2-stroke .... I'd say your 500cc was quite de-tuned!

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It's a four stroke, generally you get double the power from a two stroke engines so it's no surprise that my 500cc bike has roughly the same power output as your 250cc bike. If anything, I'd say that my bike is more well tuned as it still puts out more power than yours.

What sort of fuel economy do you get?

I get about 60mpg out of mine.

Hero999 said:

It's a four stroke, generally you get double the power from a two stroke engines so it's no surprise that my 500cc bike has roughly the same power output as your 250cc bike. If anything, I'd say that my bike is more well tuned as it still puts out more power than yours.

What sort of fuel economy do you get?

I get about 60mpg out of mine.

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I used to have a three cylinder 380cc two stroke Suzuki, not that big an engine, but it would beat Ferraris and Porsches up to about 80mph.

However, seeing 30mpg would only be in a dream!

There's nothing 'magic' about two strokes, they provide more power, but it's simply because they drink more fuel - and contrary to popular opinion, they usually rev much lower than four stokes.

HiTech said:

BTW, my Maico MX bike developed 52hp from a 249cc 2-stroke .... I'd say your 500cc was quite de-tuned!

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Quote from nigel
There's nothing 'magic' about two strokes, they provide more power, but it's simply because they drink more fuel - and contrary to popular opinion, they usually rev much lower than four stokes.

OK what we now doing is compare apples with cherrys

as for the first quote from Hi tech
the new 250CC fourstroke competition bikes that you can just buy in your local shop will deliver around 48 HP you still will be able to tweek them further and squeez an extra 3 or 4 HP out of it, the 2 strokes will have about the same the thing is that they deliver that power on a totaly different way and it requires a different driving style with both bikes you can win the championchip (depents on the driver and some of it of the reliaibility of the bike)

for the quote from nigel i agree 100% with him there's nothing magic on 2 strokes
but you cant say in general that a 2 stroke runs lower rpm than a four stroke

it depents how the engine is designed
a 2 stroke has his power peak normaly arround 6500 rpm till 9000 rpm this can vary a bit if the engine is tuned but it's very unlikly that the poweband starts below 5000 rpm

now the four stroke racers they rev easily 11000 rpm, much more than 90% of the 2 strokes

but if we look to a touring motor or a chopper they can put out the same HP as the racers but will never rev 11000 rpm
but their power band starts at 1500 rpm and goes to 6000 rpm to 7000 rpm
and it doesnt peak that much as a 2 stroke


general you can say that the longer the way is the piston have to travel to make one turn the lower the max rpm is and the bigger the torque is it can produce the behavior of the nengine is less nervous/responsive on trottle changes also

Robert-Jan