12DC Sockets

Just now seeing it, Graham.

Gimme an hour (from now) or so to finish my sim schematic and power it up.

You should do the same. All in can do is not work, right?

This is exciting, eh what??

How do you do sim then?

It wants to work after all that effort.lol
I am quite excited

Ok, is this the part where I fiddled around to get labels right that isgoing to shoot mine down in flames because I couldnt get it to accept ohms only Kohms :-(

erm, yeah..........**broken link removed** think you might be helping me put mine right **broken link removed**

Waiting *grin* mine needs values altering, please tell me it works

Not that I'm impatient or anything.lol

Don't forget R4 is 2.4 ohms not Kohms

Graham,

I am impressed!!

As you have drawn it (and I've re-drawn it in TINA, which, BTW, please check my work for accuracy) the circuit works as a voltage regulator.

View attachment 60872

In other words, it does what a zener does but with increased current carrying capability.

With 13.7VDC as input, I put varying resistive loads ( 5, 10, 25, 50, 100 and 150 ohm) across the output and the output voltage/total circuit current values were:

(This is with the 1N2804 zener (TINA does not have a 1N4148), rated at 6.8BV (Breakdown Voltage)

At 150 ohms = 8.7VDC/1.01A
At 100 Ohms = 8.6 VDC/1.03A
50 Ohms = 8.5VDC/1.06A
25 Ohms = 8.2VDC/1.1A
10 Ohms = 7.6VDC/1.3A
5 Ohm = 6.6VDC/1.5A

As you can see, voltage regulation starts to fail once total current usage goes above 1.1 Amps. At least for this circuit. I also can't, at this point, tell you exactly how the circuit is working.

All this does not mean that it's exactly like the original circuit, but it does mean that the circuit you drew works as the above, which is very impressive.

Any data available on what the manufacturer claimed for the unit? So we can compare their specs to our results.

EDIT (1:55PM) The more I look at this circuit while it's working, the more I realize that I have no clue why it's doing what's it's doing...

CBB

ok, looking at your circuit, you have:
R7 at 2.7K instead of 2.4K
C1 100u on lefthand side of circuit instead of above R9 or R6 in your case
R1 4.7k insterad of 1.7k
Z1 to the right of R5 instead of to the left of it
& the pos & neg connections the wrong way around on the bottom

What difference this makes

in realtion to this circuit I wouldn't have a clue, theres nothing like being honest is there **broken link removed**

I have studied this circuit to death, would be interesting to see how current flowed round it etc, but more importantly meter either side of different components so I can see the effect they are having on the circuit



Just to help the load is roughly 0.9A

Back in half hour, I have so many questions now to help me understand bits better **broken link removed**

The only thing the seller refers to is the fact that the lead will power & charge at the same time, I would have thought this to be true for any power supply cable for said gadget

Ok, questions just off your findings so far before we delve deeper
When you talk about breakdown voltage, is that the same as fuses, the limit before it will arc across circuit?
You say you transferred this circuit to TINA, does TI not have meters like your diagram above?

I don't understand why circuit is like that either, didn't you say a zener diode would control voltage spikes, is this there interpretation of clean power, all unimportant really but will be interesting to meter components either side to see how each one affects current/voltage
It would be nice to understand what they are doing before disecting. lol

Sorry for all the questions

The other thing baffling me is that photo on page 13, how can a neg connector run around pcb with no component Inbetween down to the pos connection? Why doesnt that cause a short?

OK. Here it is again with corrections..

View attachment 60880

I should add that the regulation is no longer evident.

Like I say, I'm not sure what it's doing.

Did you have any luck getting the factory specs for outputs from the rig?

It would be helpful to know what's it should be doing.

I've been editing my last post, see above

I'm interested to see the bottom connections are still other way around, you know something I don't at the moment don't you.l

R3 is 1.77 not 11.77, god that sounds like I'm nitpicking now :-( sorry, I don't mean too

Good catch on R3. BFE. I changed it to 1.7k on the Tina schematic but the change really didn't dramatically change anything (which is weird in itself).

Bouncing Fingers Error.

Tina TI does not have the meters I've been using. There are, however, meter "readers" in the Meters sub-tab selection (they look like power sources, but with a letter in side indicating function). I gonna refer you the help screens for how to use them. If you do have a problem with them, let me know (I have a copy on my machine).

And no, obviously Gnd to B+ ain't good.

And yes, the zener is there, from the looks of the circuit, to set the bias voltage on the base of T3, best I can tell. One would expect that the result to be a constant level voltage output.

Something ain't right though, but don't know what it is, just yet.

Just have to keep pluggin'

ok, looky here

**broken link removed**

then looky here, you can see pos connection below led, neg hole above lower cap, confusing or what

**broken link removed**

ok, am I getting confused here & that + sign is referring to led pos then it would be neg other side of led, meaning you have it right, why am I asking, I know your going to be**broken link removed**

moving swiftly on **broken link removed**

I'll go explore meters on TI, then we can get onto my project once I understand components functions & see what they are doing

Thanks for sticking with me on this, I have sent you a pm, I can't help it, I'm feeling pretty stupid after reading what the lead does **broken link removed** I feel like hiding but I must take this as part of learning & use it as an example of what you get when you don't read instructions, good job you asked me to check, it may have taken us quite some time to figure it out **broken link removed**

but come on £2.49 worth of fun, was even better value than I remembered & look how much I've learnt off it

Still get to disect them yet as well, these ought to be sold as tronic training aids **broken link removed**

will play with meter tomorrow, need to walk bobby in a bit so will go back an hide on phone

what other components have we not covered, I don't mean all 100000 of them just the basic ones?

Well that's me for the evening, hopefully get a good nights sleep then see how components are altering voltage/current.

Excited at getting going on projects after this, we can keep making them more difficult as we go
Goodnight CBB

You're welcome.

And there's transformers, Variable resistors, Op amps, 555Timers, etc,; lots a neat stuff...

Tina TI has a limited component selection, but plenty for you to play with for now and for some time to come.

See ya in the AM, Graham.

ok, been having a sort out, got time to play for an hour with TI meters then popping to see parents, I'll let you know how I get on

now you know I wasn't going to read the instructions **broken link removed**

I have played & figured out how to fault check via:

Analysis - DC Analysis - Table of DC Results, which gave me 6 wiring errors, click on each to highlight on schematic, how cool is that **broken link removed** of course I corrected them
which then gives me this & a probe to put on joints telling me voltage

**broken link removed**

so all the voltage is minus, what does that mean, it would be good to understand what I need to do so I can see what affect each component is is doing eithier side, it did mean moving schematic around slightly to give end of component as you cannot read off wire, if that makes sense

& I've just found this which doesn't fault trace but seems easier for readings, again you get a probe to put where you want

**broken link removed**

Updated last post
Sorry I know I'm holding my projects up but would love to see what these components are doing
Once I've learnt how to test right & use TI, that's got to be helpful for my projects hasn't it

The circuit seems to have power, can you put a voltmeter & ammeter like I have? Or would virtual one gone up in smoke like my first real one ?

Was also telling dad what a nightmare reading numbers on tiny components was, he showed me his lupe/loupe? We found the smallest component out of his box & I could easily read numbers, great little item. It was only 8.5 mag as well

Or would virtual one gone up in smoke like my first real one ?

Click to expand...

That's the beauty of the sim software (all of them): you can't hurt anything, except perhaps your pride.

Fuses will blow under the right conditions, but the only major evidence is a red X over the fuse symbol. No foul, no harm. But the fuse IS dead. Do the DC button again and all is started over, and then the fuse will blow again. Neato.

Just got home. Give me a bit to look at you attachments.

Thanks CBB
Hope youve he a good day

still playing, got rid of A & V meters off bottom of circuit & fault test & virtual meter both work, how do you connect a dummy load to get 'I' going through a circuit **broken link removed**

It's something to do with properties of symbols isn't it? it was giving reading in mA until I knocked ohms up to 10K on input voltage, now ammeter is saying 33A output **broken link removed** I haven't got the foggiest what I'm doing but I'm getting different readings **broken link removed**

Just add a resistor (generally a low value, i.e., 100 Ohms or so, play with the value) across the output.

If you want to see the current going through the load attached to an output, you attach one end of a load resistor to one leg of the output, the other end of the load resistor to an input of an ammeter and the other input of the ammeter is attached to the other end of the output of the circuit.

Basically, like I have the ammeter attached in my sim.

The point of the load test, in this case, is to see, by varying the value of the load resistor, how much current the circuit can supply before the overall voltage level at the output starts to degrade (if it's a constant voltage level regulator, which I believe this circuit is supposed to be (although it ain't acting like one).

In the circuit I posted, it's R4 (Load) in series with the ammeter being feed by the output of the circuit (we think...).

Rather than re-edit the last post, I'm making a new one.

There's something missing in the transfer of the existing, real circuit to our sim. Some critical connection(s) has/have been mis-read by us both.

And we're just not getting any real voltage regulation out of the circuit.

Need more looky time.

ok, load thing makes sense, if it's easier, have you already got a circuit with these components in that we know that works that we can test so I get used to using meters on sim rather than keep chasing our tails on this circuit

You knew I'd see sense in the end **broken link removed**

Sure. I'll whip one up and attach it as a file to a post. I'll do it in Tina TI.