230 @ 50 hertz vs running on 60 Hertz

[neptune1021]

Hi,
I am moving back to Canada and want to take my washing machine and dryer with me that run on 230v 50 hertz. Canada is obviously 60 hertz. Is there anyway to drop the hertz? I was reading about an auto-transformer that you mentioned in a different thread but not sure what this is. How can I use my machines in canada, if I wire in the correct voltage, but dont have the right hertz? (I know they will run but just harder.)

Any help would be appreciated!

Thanks

 

[mneary]

Have you looked into shipping costs? Customs regulations?

You might find that frequency is the least of your issues.

 

[crutschow]

An autotransformer changes only voltage, not frequency. There is no easy way to change the frequency.

The motors will run 60/50 (20%) faster on 60Hz. So likely will the timers. Otherwise it won't hurt them.

 

[neptune1021]

Thanks for that Carl. Seem to be running into dead ends with this frequency thing... We have two nice Miele machines that we were hoping not to get rid of

 

[neptune1021]

de KI6RWX - not worried about any of that, need to figure out the frequency.

 

[mbarazeen]

you can use it on 60Hz, most of the equipment rated for 50/60 Hz are designed to meet 50Hz chaecteristics so that it can work on 60Hz without over heating or etc. abiut the motor speed, since single phase is used there wont be any issue.

i recently purchased a microwave oven written on it, as dual frequency. on the lable it has been mantioned that the current setting is 60Hz, i bought it in saudi Arabia (60Hz) and wanted to use it in Bahrain (50Hz). the seller adwised to take it to service centre to make required setting. i tought to do it myself and bought it, when i opened i found out that its already uses 50Hz rated transformers. and no further setting is required. so i started to use it on 60Hz and sits working fine.

so you do not need to worry about frequency when you go from 60Hz to 50Hz.. but if it is other way you should check the rating of the labels of the ocmponents used.(not in your case)

also you can see some equipments are rated 220/240V - 50/60Hz it meants this can be used at slightly higher voltage when frequency is 60Hz.

 

[neptune1021]

you can use it on 60Hz, most of the equipment rated for 50/60 Hz are designed to meet 50Hz chaecteristics so that it can work on 60Hz without over heating or etc. abiut the motor speed, since single phase is used there wont be any issue.

i recently purchased a microwave oven written on it, as dual frequency. on the lable it has been mantioned that the current setting is 60Hz, i bought it in saudi Arabia (60Hz) and wanted to use it in Bahrain (50Hz). the seller adwised to take it to service centre to make required setting. i tought to do it myself and bought it, when i opened i found out that its already uses 50Hz rated transformers. and no further setting is required. so i started to use it on 60Hz and sits working fine.

so you do not need to worry about frequency when you go from 60Hz to 50Hz.. but if it is other way you should check the rating of the labels of the ocmponents used.(not in your case)

also you can see some equipments are rated 220/240V - 50/60Hz it meants this can be used at slightly higher voltage when frequency is 60Hz.

Thanks, that is my next step to look inside but for now it states 50hz only on the outside. I will take a look and see as we are going from 50 to 60, which i have heard can be an issue...

 

[crutschow]

you can use it on 60Hz, most of the equipment rated for 50/60 Hz are designed to meet 50Hz chaecteristics so that it can work on 60Hz without over heating or etc. abiut the motor speed, since single phase is used there wont be any issue.

Any induction or synchronous motor speed is determined by the AC frequency. Whether it's single-phase or multi-phase has no effect on it's speed.

 

[Hero999]

The time should be a problem unless it's an old machine.

Most washing machines these days use microcontroller based timers which normally don't rely on the mains frequency for timing.

You shoudn't need a transformer, you can wire it hot to hot but you'll need to put a fuse or circuit breaker in series with both conductors which I assume is mandated by the standards anyway.

 

[Boncuk]

Thanks for that Carl. Seem to be running into dead ends with this frequency thing... We have two nice Miele machines that we were hoping not to get rid of

Hi Neptune,

running Miele machines at 60Hz is no problem.

As Carl pointed out timers might be a problem. If the machines are of the new generation they use microprocessors and real time clocks with their own crystal frequency.

No timing differences then.

Boncuk

 

[Boncuk]

Any induction or synchronous motor speed is determined by the AC frequency. Whether it's single-phase or multi-phase has no effect on it's speed.

Hi Carl,

an electric motor designed for 60Hz might overheat if operated at 50Hz. (60Hz requires less iron in the motor).

Switching from 50 to 60Hz will always be safe.

 

[neptune1021]

Hi Carl,

an electric motor designed for 60Hz might overheat if operated at 50Hz. (60Hz requires less iron in the motor).

Switching from 50 to 60Hz will always be safe.

Hi Boncuk,
Thank you for the comments. The machines are the top end ones and are only 6 months old. Despite the sticks on the doors stating that they are 230v 50hz, you feel that they will be a 50/60hz machine and that the timers won't necessarily be an issue? We have the European model that we will be taking back to canada with us. Think it is worth taking the back panel off to see what is inscribed on the actual motor? So at 60hz will the motor run harder like everyone is saying?
Thanks again for your help!

 

[mbarazeen]

Hi Boncuk,
Thank you for the comments. The machines are the top end ones and are only 6 months old. Despite the sticks on the doors stating that they are 230v 50hz, you feel that they will be a 50/60hz machine and that the timers won't necessarily be an issue? We have the European model that we will be taking back to canada with us. Think it is worth taking the back panel off to see what is inscribed on the actual motor? So at 60hz will the motor run harder like everyone is saying?
Thanks again for your help!

at 60Hz motor will NOT run harder. may be i made a mistake when i typed

"so you do not need to worry about frequency when you go from 60Hz to 50Hz.. but if it is other way you should check the rating of the labels of the ocmponents used.(not in your case)"

it has to be corrected as...
so you do not need to worry about frequency when you go from 50Hz to 60Hz.........

 

[Boncuk]

Hi Boncuk,
Thank you for the comments. The machines are the top end ones and are only 6 months old. Despite the sticks on the doors stating that they are 230v 50hz, you feel that they will be a 50/60hz machine and that the timers won't necessarily be an issue? We have the European model that we will be taking back to canada with us. Think it is worth taking the back panel off to see what is inscribed on the actual motor? So at 60hz will the motor run harder like everyone is saying?
Thanks again for your help!

Hi Neptune,

Miele washers are the "Mercedes class" amongst laundry washers and - of course, the most expensive ones to find in Germany.

You won't find a label on the motor I guess since they are manufactured in Italy, custom made.

Even if the timer uses a synchronous motor you can set accurate timing by using the factor 1.2 for programming the washing time, e.g. desired time 1 hour you might select 72 minutes on the scale for that time.

I'm pretty sure timing won't be an issue for the reason I already posted.

Overheat would probably occur using a motor designed for a higher mains frequency. (In your case you are changing from low to high frequency.)

Aircraft electric DC power is gained from 110V/400Hz and the transformers are comparatively small (small iron packet) to save weight.

The motor won't run harder, but slightly faster (20%) than normal. RPM depends on the number of poles and mains frequency.

You might probably run into problems when the machine spins the laundry attaining an rpm region with the drum's radial speed going supersonic.

So be prepared for a sonic boom.

Regards

Boncuk

 

[neptune1021]

Hi Neptune,

Miele washers are the "Mercedes class" amongst laundry washers and - of course, the most expensive ones to find in Germany.

You won't find a label on the motor I guess since they are manufactured in Italy, custom made.

Even if the timer uses a synchronous motor you can set accurate timing by using the factor 1.2 for programming the washing time, e.g. desired time 1 hour you might select 72 minutes on the scale for that time.

I'm pretty sure timing won't be an issue for the reason I already posted.

Overheat would probably occur using a motor designed for a higher mains frequency. (In your case you are changing from low to high frequency.)

Aircraft electric DC power is gained from 110V/400Hz and the transformers are comparatively small (small iron packet) to save weight.

The motor won't run harder, but slightly faster (20%) than normal. RPM depends on the number of poles and mains frequency.

You might probably run into problems when the machine spins the laundry attaining an rpm region with the drum's radial speed going supersonic.

So be prepared for a sonic boom.

Regards

Boncuk

Hi Boncuk,
That is my worry, it running faster. I think the timers are all computer originated so that should be okay I hope... Thanks for all the help!
Neptune

 

[Boncuk]

Hi Boncuk,
That is my worry, it running faster. I think the timers are all computer originated so that should be okay I hope... Thanks for all the help!
Neptune

Hi Neptune,

don't worry about supersonic speed when spinning. Spin rotation is max. 3,000rpm at nominal mains frequency. It will increase to 3,600rpm with no problem concerning radial speed, saving drying time.

I was just pulling your leg a bit.

Regards

Boncuk

 

[neptune1021]

Hi Neptune,

don't worry about supersonic speed when spinning. Spin rotation is max. 3,000rpm at nominal mains frequency. It will increase to 3,600rpm with no problem concerning radial speed, saving drying time.

I was just pulling your leg a bit.

Regards

Boncuk

lol thanks, I worked in the windfarming industry for a bit and it was a concern on the tips of blades as they spin a lot faster than the centre Thanks, I just ripped the dryer apart and the circuit board is 220-240v 50-60hertz, So i just have to see what is driving the motor to see if it too takes 60 hertz.

Thanks again,
James

 

[Boncuk]

lol thanks, I worked in the windfarming industry for a bit and it was a concern on the tips of blades as they spin a lot faster than the centre Thanks, I just ripped the dryer apart and the circuit board is 220-240v 50-60hertz, So i just have to see what is driving the motor to see if it too takes 60 hertz.

Thanks again,
James

Hi James,

I didn't expect any bad news. German quality products work best. (German industry standard 50/60Hz)

Best regards

Boncuk

 

[iinnovate]

I moved from Dubai to the US and brought with me several Miele products. I had the same concern as the ones listed above. I had a electrician come in and put in a couple of 220 lines for my washer, dryer and refrigerator. The Fridge and dryer work well but the washer keeps giving me an error message of FAULT - DRAIN and makes a piping sound like pop corn piping. The electrician told me that going from 50 to 60 hz should not be the cause of the problem but when I called Miele they told me it could be. A repairman is supposed to check it out shortly. I will revert back with an update.

 

[dr pepper]

If you run a transformer designed for 60hz on 50hz you run the risk of burning it out, the core runs the risk of saturating due to increased volts/seconds, going the other way like you are isnt usually a problem, this is less of a problem with motors, esp ones in domestic machines, these tend to be universal motors which will even run on dc.
If its a high end miele item then the controller might be unhappy with a change in freq, esp if its one of these direct drive multi phase drum motors.