Apparently I got coal in my stocking this year.

[Mickster]

I think the 'problem' basically lies with frustration, rather than any form of malice.

Members, contributing their own free time to the forum, usually expect nothing more than a relatively-detailed outline of what is required from an idea, along with a brief description of what has been done to date before seeking help here.

The 'problem' is also not specific to this forum. Almost any forum which you can access will have a number of prolific posters, very knowlegeable in the subject and more than willing to help anyone. In order to be in a position to offer the advice, many years have been spent learning the particular subject and countless hours of pouring over datasheets and manuals have been expended.

But that invested time gets trampled upon by some of those from the current generation.... the ones with the mouth open, waiting for the spoon to come.

When the spoon doesn't come quickly enough, the tantrums and abuse start...



Unfortunately, forums are following what has led to society going downhill. The adults within the community are no longer allowed to nip things in the bud before 'police' intervention is required..... and now it's usually the aggressor who gets away scot-free...

 

[tcmtech]

I think the 'problem' basically lies with frustration, rather than any form of malice.

Members, contributing their own free time to the forum, usually expect nothing more than a relatively-detailed outline of what is required from an idea, along with a brief description of what has been done to date before seeking help here.

The 'problem' is also not specific to this forum. Almost any forum which you can access will have a number of prolific posters, very knowledgeable in the subject and more than willing to help anyone. In order to be in a position to offer the advice, many years have been spent learning the particular subject and countless hours of pouring over datasheets and manuals have been expended.

But that invested time gets trampled upon by some of those from the current generation.

Exactly, amen, and well put!

I think many of us here often times feel that frustration when we freely give out useful advice that took us lifetimes to learn and understand only to be immediately ripped to pieces by arm chair lawyers worried about unrealistic and narrow minded safety issues that should have no concern to them what so ever. Just the same as when some self important half wit tells you you are a clueless child that needs to grow up even though its obvious they themselves don't have the capacity to grasp the concept and relative intricacies of what it is your attempting to explain or demonstrate.

I dont find its all the younger generations fault though. Many of the senior members of our society, and forum, just assume that what they know is the absolute best even though they clearly show a very narrow minded and limited view about most everything. If its not their way its wrong, If they haven't done it its impossible, If they dont have the resources to do it its not worth doing, if they believe it to be true no science in the universe will be allowed to prove them wrong.

Personally many times I find myself stuck in the middle in some way.
Do I attempt to correct those who are in fact wrong or just let them wallow in their own ignorance? Do I try and teach and explain a different way of doing something or do I keep it to myself so I dont have to deal with the pinhead who is more concerned about things he clearly doesn't understand than he is about the real topic at hand?
Do I give a solid referance and hope they actually read and understand it or do I just walk away and let them continue on with false understandings and out right superstitious beliefs?


Over all I like helping out here. Its fun and I mostly enjoy it.
But there are some days when, well you know... Any of this sound familiar?

 

[Mickster]

Exactly, amen, and well put!

I think many of us here often times feel that frustration when we freely give out useful advice that took us lifetimes to learn and understand only to be immediately ripped to pieces by arm chair lawyers worried about unrealistic and narrow minded safety issues that should have no concern to them what so ever. Just the same as when some self important half wit tells you you are a clueless child that needs to grow up even though its obvious they themselves don't have the capacity to grasp the concept and relative intricacies of what it is your attempting to explain or demonstrate.

I dont find its all the younger generations fault though. Many of the senior members of our society, and forum, just assume that what they know is the absolute best even though they clearly show a very narrow minded and limited view about most everything. If its not their way its wrong, If they haven't done it its impossible, If they dont have the resources to do it its not worth doing, if they believe it to be true no science in the universe will be allowed to prove them wrong.

Personally many times I find myself stuck in the middle in some way.
Do I attempt to correct those who are in fact wrong or just let them wallow in their own ignorance? Do I try and teach and explain a different way of doing something or do I keep it to myself so I dont have to deal with the pinhead who is more concerned about things he clearly doesn't understand than he is about the real topic at hand?
Do I give a solid referance and hope they actually read and understand it or do I just walk away and let them continue on with false understandings and out right superstitious beliefs?


Over all I like helping out here. Its fun and I mostly enjoy it.
But there are some days when, well you know... Any of this sound familiar?

Although I do agree with most of what you have said there tcm, attaching labels (negative or derogatory ones) to 'types of people' kind of moves the focus from the point in hand. Instead of the actual topic and it's application being the focal point of the discussion, further input usually homes in upon the personally negative aspects and diverts threads from their original course. Instead of the concept being the discussion, those discussing the concept end up being the discussion.....

 

[smanches]

"People who think they know everything are particularly aggravating to those of use who do."

 

[Mickster]

"People who think they know everything are particularly aggravating to those of use who do."

Ahh, a quote....is it directed at anyone in particular as a means of admonishment.......?

 

[smanches]

It basically sums up much of the frustration when trying to help certain people. Not aimed at anyone specifically. I probably could have quoted tcmtech's line, which is what prompted it.

Just the same as when some self important half wit tells you you are a clueless child that needs to grow up even though its obvious they themselves don't have the capacity to grasp the concept and relative intricacies of what it is your attempting to explain or demonstrate.

It's been my favorite quote for a couple of decades now, mostly because I like to see peoples reactions to it.

 

[Mickster]

Again, the choice of wording (labels) is questionable, but the underlying gist of tcm's quoted text appears sound IMHO...

Perhaps my own reaction may be of help with your studies:

There are those with blinkered beliefs, who are severely reluctant to accept any possible outcome from a project, other than that which their own imagination or experience affords.

Some years ago, it was hypothesised that man could not possibly travel beyond X miles per hour in free air, lest the oxygen be stripped from his lungs and an immediate death was sure to follow.....

 

[Sceadwian]

I just recently bought a t-shirt that says "Yes I really do know everything, I just can't remember it all at once." I won't ever wear it but thinking about mounting it in a frame next to my desk

 

[kchriste]

Pot = Kettle = black

 

[tcmtech]

In a way I see much of Sceadwains issue here as being something we all have dealt with from both side at some time in our lives. (If I am understanding what happened of course.)
I have had to reluctantly swallow my pride and accept that what I have learned in some instances was very incomplete or had been taught to me with a very single sided view point of how something should or does work.
The problems come if you approach the wrong person in the wrong way about something they feel strongly about but are wrong about it often gets taken as an insult and is at times grossly over reacted to. If they have any power over you it usually gets unfairly used against you for your efforts regardless of who you or they are and what is or is not in fact right.


What bugs me is that some people have what I see as unrealistic issues with implied name calling or simply self perceived negative descriptive terminology.
I type as I speak and thats it for me. What I type here is basically what you would hear me say any place I would be at and with anyone whom I am having a conversation with. I say things like pinheads, retards, stupid SOB's, the village idiots half wit brother, WTF?, and a whole lot worse every single day of my life in casual conversation.
I also hear things like that as well and I take no offense to it what so ever. If anything most times when anyone is describing someone else that way in regards to something that happened and I see that I too am guilty of that action I will cheerfully say "Yep! That was me about two days ago!" and grin like the idiot I was when I did what ever it was they are talking about. I dont try to get all over their butt and tell them they are bad for saying what ever they said because I feel bad about what I did and I am a little embarrassed or hurt by what was being said.

Whenever anyone uses a colorful derogatory mark and the same people keep to coming to the same conclusions that they are whom is being talking about then maybe they did or are doing something that makes them feel that way. Likely that person has some self esteem or self worth issues that need to be worked out or just needs some hot air let out of their over inflated ego or perhaps needs to build up their life more instead of try and bring everyone else down to their less than grand level of existence. If you feel your stupid and useless then guess what? You are the one who has to change it!

What it comes down to for me and hopefully for many people is that I am not going to change who I am because someone else has a big ego and fragile feelings. No one will do it for me if I am the one who is feeling that way so I have to suck it up and deal with why I felt the way I did at the time. If my feeling confident about my knowledge and understandings of something makes someone else feel uptight and defensive for what ever odd reasons well that just to bad. I worked hard to learn and now understand what I know. I get a good feeling from sharing what I know with others who may be able to use that knowledge to their advantage as well.

If someone doesn't like how I speak and doesn't like that I have reasons to feel confident and good about myself because of what I know, have done, and can do thats really not my problem! If my resources make someone jealous I am not giving them up so that that person feels better about their empty useless life so they can kiss my back side for all I care!

 

[Mikebits]

I type as I speak and thats it for me. What I type here is basically what you would hear me say any place I would be at and with anyone whom I am having a conversation with. I say things like pinheads, retards, stupid SOB's, the village idiots half wit brother, WTF?, and a whole lot worse every single day of my life in casual conversation.

And yet, I am surprised no woman has managed to make an honest man out of you.

 

[tcmtech]

And yet, I am surprised no woman has managed to make an honest man out of you.

Actualy I have someone who finds my openness and independent nature rather enjoyable even to my surprise.
She likes my grumpy morning faces and that I dont back down on things I believe in just the same as that she wont back down in an argument when she knows she is right.
Plus she swears and cuss's just as much as I do! The stuff she says about her coworkers, employers, and customers even surprises me some times. What more could I ask for!

In 10+ years she is the first one to make it to the point of my considering there being a Mrs. Tcmtech.

 

[killivolt]

In 10+ years she is the first one to make it to the point of my considering there being a Mrs. Tcmtech.

That's great. Out of all my failures I married a friend. I always dated girls with a certain chemical appeal. My wife is no super model but she lets me be me and still knows how to put me in my place.

Best wishes.

Edit: It's also my Anniversary. What women would allow me to be on the internet without complaining.

 

[Hero999]

Women don't generally have that effect, they're more likely to make someone dishonest.

I don't think yours would take to kindly to your post.

Regarding the whole insults debate: I think generally people with lower self-esteem are more likely to take offence than those who are more confident. I don't know about you lot but I'm more sensitive to insults when I'm in a bad mood or am feeling nervous. If I'm out with a few friends and someone calls me a bad name then I wouldn't worry about it but if the someone had a go at me in at my first day in a new job, I'd be more likely to be offended simply because at that point I would be feeling more vulnerable: did I do something to upset them? It depends on the insult too, for example suppose you're all dressed up to go on a first date with a hot girl then someone points out a spot on your forehead which you tried to mask by covering it with some of your sister's make up, you're a hell of a lot more likely to be offended than if some idiot at work commented on your spot.

 

[killivolt]

Women don't generally have that effect, they're more likely to make someone dishonest.

I don't think yours would take to kindly to your post.

My wife will be the first to tell you I fail in the looks department. But, she loves my attitude and that 's all that matters.

After all these years seems like it was just yesterday we hooked up. It's the glue that holds things together when all else fails.

Edit: I just seen in another post the cat is back. ( Like it. )