Button pushing device?

[Mishael]

i need something that pushes buttons for me from a distance. now before you say "youre just lazy" hear me out. i work for a drama club and our CD player is very far from our sound board where i need to sit the whole time. if i had like just electromagnetic devices that pushed a metal bar into the buttons, my life would be made easy. of course, remotes were invented for this but we buy the cheap stuff i guess...i just dont know what the device that actually does the physical movements is called so some help would be aweseom

 

[Reloadron]

You may want to look at various mechanical solenoids. That is what you are describing. You don't mention stroke?

Ron

 

[LTX71CM]

You can buy a cd player with remote for around $20 these days. Probably what you'd spend in parts and time trying to do it yourself.

 

[Reloadron]

You can buy a cd player with remote for around $20 these days. Probably what you'd spend in parts and time trying to do it yourself.

Yeah, I don't get it. You would spend more than the cost of a player just buying and building a fixture for using solenoids than on a player with a remote. Beats me.

Ron

 

[Dr_Doggy]

why not just put a photo-transistor across the button, then you can trigger it with a laser, maybe put a "tube" around it so ambient lights don't trigger it.

 

[Sceadwian]

doggy, if he's looking for a purely mechanical solution it's a good bet his electronics knowledge isn't very good especially if he doesn't even know what a solenoid is.
It would be far easier and cheaper to buy a new CD player that has a remote control.

 

[BrownOut]

A remote control requires line of sight, and depending on the stage setup, that might not be practical. So, soliniods might be needed. I've used them for button pushing many times, and they work well. However, it's more common to have "pull" than "push" soliniods, so I've had to fabricate lever systems when pull solinoids were all I had.

 

[Torben]

A remote control requires line of sight, and depending on the stage setup, that might not be practical. So, soliniods might be needed. I've used them for button pushing many times, and they work well. However, it's more common to have "pull" than "push" soliniods, so I've had to fabricate lever systems when pull solinoids were all I had.

Perhaps. But it would be easier and more reliable IMHO to buy the system with remote and build a remote repeater--possibly running the remote commands over a wire for the bulk of the distance--than it would be to cobble together some wild mechanical contraption to push the buttons.


Regards,

Torben

 

[Boncuk]

How about a more natural way to hit the proper keys?

Get yourself a miniature monkey (Pinselohraffe) and train it to operate the right button on different whistle signals.

Your parties should get much attraction by ladies who like to hug the monkey while he is doing his work properly.

Here's the "tool".

Boncuk

 

[BrownOut]

Perhaps. But it would be easier and more reliable IMHO to buy the system with remote and build a remote repeater--possibly running the remote commands over a wire for the bulk of the distance--than it would be to cobble together some wild mechanical contraption to push the buttons.


Regards,

Torben

Who said anything about wild, mechanical contraptions? Couple soliinoids are clean and simple. They are not suitable for every app, like if the buttons are exceedingly small or at weird angles, however they can offer a simple solution in many cases.

 

[Boncuk]

Who said anything about wild, mechanical contraptions?

I guess Torben was thinking a bit more ahead. It's not only using solenoids (what are soliinoids?), but it might be a problem to fix them in a position to make them able to hit the button.

BTW, that's also my opinion about the problem. Connecting a solenoid is certainly the smallest of all.

Making the proper mechanical construction will certainly be a problem for somebody not having studied mechanical design.

Are you starting to get into the foot prints of "c....55"?

Boncuk

 

[BrownOut]

True that. One would need basic mechanical aptitude to build it, and it might not be easy for every device. But I expect theater people, adept at building sets and whatnot, would posses the skill to do it, and to decide if it were feasable or not.

Ps: I think Torben envisions some sort of Rube Goldberg setup

 

[Sceadwian]

It'd be easier just to open up the player and wire directly to the switches rather than cludge together a mechanical solution, not that it couldn't work but a purely electrical one would be simpler.

 

[BrownOut]

Well the good thing about a mechanical cludge, and why I use it, is you don't have to hack up the unit, and you can always return things to their original state by just removing the solinoind assembly. It's a matter of preference, when I rework something like that, I like to be able to choose to use the mods or not.

 

[Sceadwian]

Hacking a CD unit is pretty trivial, there's no reason not to leave the existing buttons functional, tapping them is simply a matter of a quick solder patch to a thin gauge wire, if you don't want the hack anymore simply disconnect the wires. If you want an easily removable hack use a small header connector screwed or hot glued to the case. It boils down to preference, but an all electrical solution is going to be more reliable than a mechanical one by default all other things being equal.

 

[BrownOut]

I'm sure the mechanical solution is pleanty reliable. Properly done, it will outlast the CD unit. When removed, there are no hackey wires or glued down headers left on the unit. If not used for a CD, good thing to keep in mind for other devices. I use a solinoid assembly for remote, atonomous recording with a VCR, and it works great. When I'm not recording remotely, I lift the VCR out of the fixture, and use it independently.

I noticed there are "push" type solinoids on the site, and I'd recommend using those if they are available. Don't fool around making levers if you don't have to ( like I did ) They are a pain.

 

[Torben]

Who said anything about wild, mechanical contraptions?

I did. Pay attention. (Just kidding--I'm feeling like a smartass today).

Couple soliinoids are clean and simple. They are not suitable for every app, like if the buttons are exceedingly small or at weird angles, however they can offer a simple solution in many cases.

Sure. I still wouldn't do it that way unless I couldn't use an IR-equipped player (which could well be the case here). You can make the IR repeater using just an IR transmitter/receiver pair and a line driver. You could put those into an XLR housing and use the cable snake to route to backstage (you could do this with your idea too, of course). There are no requirements of the player unit other than that it has an IR remote--it wouldn't even require actual push switches for functionality. And while I agree 2 solenoids isn't much in the way of moving parts, the IR repeater has 0 moving parts--and no mechanical setup is needed to mate solenoids to buttons on the unit: you just aim the repeater head at the IR receiver on the unit.

All in all I don't think either method has a huge advantage over the other in terms of cost or complexity: both are simple and easy to make. I'd rather go with the fully electronic one for the reasons stated, but if the unit doesn't have IR remote control and you can't use one that does, then there's nothing wrong with the solenoid idea. If the IR remote control option is there, however, I'd prefer to go with that.

Actually in a pro stage environment what I'd really want would be a proper stage CD player with MIDI Show Control or similar. But that's a whole different wave in a whole different ocean.


Cheers,

Torben

 

[Sceadwian]

An IR 'repeater' can be made by appropriate placement of mirrors.... The IR modulation rate is so low there is no frequency shift with distance so it can be discounted, all you need is a bright enough IR remote source and a few well placed mirrors and you're good. A simple piece of IR reflective material is so much cheaper than an active source, and knowing your environment is important.

 

[BrownOut]

I did. Pay attention. (Just kidding--I'm feeling like a smartass today).



Sure. I still wouldn't do it that way unless I couldn't use an IR-equipped player (which could well be the case here). You can make the IR repeater using just an IR transmitter/receiver pair and a line driver. You could put those into an XLR housing and use the cable snake to route to backstage (you could do this with your idea too, of course). There are no requirements of the player unit other than that it has an IR remote--it wouldn't even require actual push switches for functionality. And while I agree 2 solenoids isn't much in the way of moving parts, the IR repeater has 0 moving parts--and no mechanical setup is needed to mate solenoids to buttons on the unit: you just aim the repeater head at the IR receiver on the unit.

All in all I don't think either method has a huge advantage over the other in terms of cost or complexity: both are simple and easy to make. I'd rather go with the fully electronic one for the reasons stated, but if the unit doesn't have IR remote control and you can't use one that does, then there's nothing wrong with the solenoid idea. If the IR remote control option is there, however, I'd prefer to go with that.

Actually in a pro stage environment what I'd really want would be a proper stage CD player with MIDI Show Control or similar. But that's a whole different wave in a whole different ocean.


Cheers,

Torben

I didn't think about routing. 'Course, for the price of an old wireless enabled PC and some free disrto software, you can create an audio server with every song and sound effect you'll ever need, which can be controlled wirelessly with a laptop ( or even an IPOD ). You won't even have to change CD's

 

[Torben]

I didn't think about routing. 'Course, for the price of an old wireless enabled PC and some free disrto software, you can create an audio server with every song and sound effect you'll ever need, which can be controlled wirelessly with a laptop ( or even an IPOD ). You won't even have to change CD's

Yeah. My MSC-enabled CD player idea is a bit out of date, true. A proper sound server would definitely be better.


Cheers,

Torben