College Degree: A Complete Waste so far

[ericgibbs]

hi Digitan,

They say these jobs are expanding 5%. But then, I trust the government about as far as I can throw it. I'm going to start looking overseas this month

Last year there was thread on the forum discussing the USA electronics engineering labour markets future.

If the trend in the US follow the engineering/artisan trend worldwide for the past thousand years, more US and UK engineers will have to consider overseas employment.

Its not the end of the world, there is life after the US.

Contact an overseas employment agency for job prospects, good luck.

In the past many struggling engineers with holes in their pants finally hit the mother lode.

 

[Pommie]

The negative spiral comment above (rjvh) is worth reading again. You have to change your attitude to a positive one and get on an upward spiral.

Mike.

 

[Optikon]

The negative spiral comment above (rjvh) is worth reading again. You have to change your attitude to a positive one and get on an upward spiral.

Mike.

I agree. Sounds like the OP had some expectation that having a degree gets you a job. Having a degree shows you might have learned something. To get a job, you should be attractive to hire.

 

[DigiTan]

I agree. Sounds like the OP had some expectation that having a degree gets you a job. Having a degree shows you might have learned something. To get a job, you should be attractive to hire.

I honestly don't know how I could conjure up a positive attitude anymore. The past few years, life's been just one frustration after another. All my diligence and self-sacrifice was pointless. I'm honestly a little surprised I haven't tried to kill myself. Who wants to live a life where you could never accomplish anything?

Anyway, I'm giving it one last run. 200+ applications before May 1st. If that doesn't work, another 200+ with false credentials before June 1st, because frankly honesty gets me nowhere in life anymore. Maybe I'll stick around a while after that, but if I have to default on my students loans, I'm looking at collections, lawsuits, and a credit mark that will make it impossible to ever find work. After that, there's no point.

 

[Hank Fletcher]

Maybe I'll stick around a while after that, but if I have to default on my students loans, I'm looking at collections, lawsuits, and a credit mark that will make it impossible to ever find work. After that, there's no point.

You're puttng way too much pressure on yourself. I'm speaking as someone who's been exactly in your position - been there, done that, got the bumper sticker (and still have the student loans!).

So you don't get an engineering job. So you have student loans you can't pay off right now. So what? If you don't have the money, what are they going to do? Credit rating, schmedit rating - you'll get by. The best part of having nothing to your name is that nobody can take anything from you!

When I was poor, and I mean searching for sofa change to get a box of mac & cheese poor, I started to think about what I'd do if I had more money. Having little consequence to fear, I started to realize that what I should be doing is living now the way I fantasize I would when I'm a millionaire. I made my musical interests a priority (maybe the same way you've made your mcu website interests?), and started to think creatively about how I could get ahead with next to no personal financial investment: hanging at the library, getting paying gigs where I could, and little by little, moving on up.

You'd be really surprised at how close you are to getting what you need. You're entering the somewhat daunting, limitless opportunity phase of your life. With little obligations (other than food and shelter - the loans are not obligations, forget about them), what you have now is the blank canvas of your future life in front of you. My advice? Do what you love, and love what you do - that way, you'll always have energy to keep going, despite the lack of food or money.

Take advantage of the various charities and social services that are specifically designed to help people just like you to get over these little rough patches in their lives. Free food, free advice, free shelter, free medicine, are willingly provided from people who are compassionate and can empathisize with your position. Quite possibly, that's because once upon a time they were right where you are, and even more possible is that one day soon you'll be in a position to return the favour.

PLEASE NOTE:
If you find yourself reflecting with suicidal thoughts, know that this is a defect of your mental state brought on by the stress of your present situation. Do not let any perceived stigma associated with this kind of mental stress interfere with seeking help to correct the problem. If your work was physical by nature, and as a result you suffered shin splints due to the physical stress on your legs, you'd think nothing of going to the doctor for some treatment. Same thing with your head, if you're thinking about hurting yourself. Go to a doctor, or to a walk-in clinic, and tell them you're having thoughts about hurting yourself. They can help make you better.

 

[rjvh]

I honestly don't know how I could conjure up a positive attitude anymore. The past few years, life's been just one frustration after another. All my diligence and self-sacrifice was pointless. I'm honestly a little surprised I haven't tried to kill myself. Who wants to live a life where you could never accomplish anything?

OK i did see this point before too and at that time you're hitting a depresion at least that's what other poeple say

did you set your goals already (as i ask before)
you need more or less to clear your mind but as Hank flecher advised, you're in the lucky situation that you have acses to various charitys and goverment shemes to help you

it maybe hurts your pride but in my oppinion it's not a shame to use this as you need it

also the special note from Hank is worth to think about

My advice is more take a rest in your life and get first everything sorted out for yourself

Good luck

Robert-Jan

 

[crust]

I am not sure where you went to school (I am in Austin, TX). I have a PhD and worked the entire time I was in school. I was also on the adjunct faculty of UT. I currently manage a group in an R&D place.

0) Figure out what the story is with your university's career center. UT Austin (or at least what i recall) allowed you to continue to register after graduation if you had not found a position yet.

1) Your GPA is probably lower than most employers will arbitrarily set their screen. My suggestion is do NOT Put your GPA on your resume if it is any less than a 3.0.

2) You don't need an MS to get an R&D position, but you will likely have to demonstrate talent continuously to earn the respect of your peers and be rewarded with more challenging tasks.

3) Be absolutely passionate about what you want to do. As a recent grad, you need to be prepared for challenging technical questions at the interview. With recent grads, that is one of the only ways to gauge skill. Make a list of thing you are interested in doing, then cull the field to the top ten that truly motivate and intrigue you long term. Then determine, at this stage, what of those are you good at and do you exude the most confidence at.

4) Anything you put on your resume, you had better be able to back it up with at least one interesting thing. For instance "I decided to learn spice by simulating circuits I found in books" demonstrates a clear willingness to learn vs "I used it in class for an assignment".

5) If you are not sure what you want, leave off the objective and let the people come to you with what they have. They may say "what do you want to do?" When you respond, you've already started the conversation so they might follow up with "well, we don't have that but we have X". With an objective, they might never contact you in the first place.

6) Recent grads often find small companies (sub-50) intriguing, but difficult to work at. The reason is that these companies typically are not equipped to educate and train new grads. My suggestion would be to join/approach larger outfits that have established procedures in place for how to get recent grads to productivity.

Lastly some tips: You will not be able to think of any questions during an interview. Read up on the company / position / products before you go. Make a list of a dozen or so questions to ask that you want to know the answers to. They might answer some during the interview, but when they ask you if you have any questions, it shows tremendous forethought and planning if you already have them down. Plus it makes narrowing your prospects easier if you eliminate unknowns. It shows lack of interest when you have no questions, so come prepared. If you have something cool you have done (i.e maybe you've designed a circuit board), bring it. If you run short of the allotted interview time, you can discuss it with the interviewer). For me being creative is also incredibly valuable.

Be prepared to answer the following questions (especially if you are interviewing with me). a) What is the most difficult problem that you have ever solved? b) Why was it difficult? c) What do you believe is the talent that you would be able to bring to our team. d) Technical / Math questions.

That is all I can think of for now. Good luck.

- ame

 

[DigiTan]

I'll try it. This mess is going to destroy me if I can't catch a break. It would take hours to describe the mental agony I'm going through

 

[quixotron]

I'll try it. This mess is going to destroy me if I can't catch a break. It would take hours to describe the mental agony I'm going through

nope. not a #$%^ing break. not for me, not for you and certainly not for minorities! its something we are going to have to deal with.

 

[DigiTan]

That's true. As soon as people see that I'm black and 25, they're immediately afraid of me. Never mind that I have 33 inventions, taught myself 5 programming languages and read five times the normal rate. If you're black or Hispanic, people assume there's something wrong you. And when they do see you're above board, they make sure you stay jobless. Just look at the unemployment gap. In the larger sense, I'm just a metaphor for what ruling class has planned for all minorities. 1.) Profile 2.) Deny opportunity 3.) Force into poverty 4.) Force into crime/drugs 5.) Repeat for the next generation. The only way out is to come into money or die.


I'm in the 1st circle of hell. All I ask is that someone...just one person...give me a chance to prove myself as an engineer. WHY WON'T ANYONE GIVE ME A CHANCE?

 

[Krumlink]

That's unfortunate that as qualified and as talented as you are, you are unable to find a job. Perhaps if you promoted yourself (youtube vids lol) a bit more some employer may make you a employee. If still unsuccessful, try to make a website.

If you don't mind me asking, what is your current occupation?

 

[t.o.]

That's true. As soon as people see that I'm black and 25, they're immediately afraid of me. Never mind that I have 33 inventions, taught myself 5 programming languages and read five times the normal rate. If you're black or Hispanic, people assume there's something wrong you. And when they do see you're above board, they make sure you stay jobless. Just look at the unemployment gap. In the larger sense, I'm just a metaphor for what ruling class has planned for all minorities. 1.) Profile 2.) Deny opportunity 3.) Force into poverty 4.) Force into crime/drugs 5.) Repeat for the next generation. The only way out is to come into money or die.


I'm in the 1st circle of hell. All I ask is that someone...just one person...give me a chance to prove myself as an engineer. WHY WON'T ANYONE GIVE ME A CHANCE?

It breaks my heart when I read your thread. Can you try overseas such as Singapore or some where? Do not give up.

 

[Hank Fletcher]

WHY WON'T ANYONE GIVE ME A CHANCE

Why wait? You can wait a long time for someone to say, "What the heck, I'll throw the dog a bone." But as long as you're dependent on philanthropy, you'll always be dependent on philanthropy. Why wait? Just reach and take the opportunity you want.

Opportunity is just like that - it grows on a tree with plenty enough for everyone. All you have to do is reach out and take it, it's as simple as that. You can wait for the odds to change in your favour, wait for someone to give you a chance, or instead remove the element of chance altogether.

You are in control of your own destiny. The problem is, you've convinced yourself otherwise by falling into a trap (I don't doubt inadvertently) of repeating a negative mantra. What you need to do is recharge your positive mind set. You're not the first black engineer in America, and you won't be the last, but you're still young enough to be the greatest engineer ever, regardless of colour.

You know that's true. But do you believe it's true? You must believe that success will definitely be your reward if you make the risk to reach out and take your opportunity, to go forth and shape your own destiny. It's not enough to simply know that these details are true, you must practice your belief in them, and you consequently will soon find that your beliefs will begin to shape your reality.

Will you try something for me? When you go to bed, instead of lying awake worrying about things that might or might not happen, repeat to yourself a positive mantra. Here are some suggestions:
"I am in control of my own destiny."
"Opportunity is right in front of me. All I have to do is reach out and take it."
"Everyday, in everyway, I get better."

As you lie in bed, repeat one of those (or one of your own) ten times, in your head or out-loud as is most convenient. On each repetition, firmly but gently press a finger (and then the next, and so on) into your thigh.

Breathe in slowly as you begin each repetition, and out calmly as you say/think the words. As you're saying/thinking each repetition, close your eyes and visualize yourself doing an activity you've done or will do successfully. Don't worry if it takes time to articulate in your mind how you have/will be successful. There is no rush to get from one repetition to the next.

As you breathe deeply and repeat your mantra, you'll begin to feel yourself getting calm. The visualization of your being successful, being happy, will become clearer. Every now and then, a negative thought might temporarily distract you. Go on, indulge yourself. See the negative thought clearly in your head, as if it were on a 20" screen. Now it's on a 15" screen, and on a small picture-in-picture there is now the image of you being successful, happy, and accomplishing your goals. Now the negative thought is on a 12" screen, and in black and white. Visualize yourself laughing at the negative thought. Say, "ha!" outloud at how small that negative thought is now. Now it's on an 8" screen, and the picture is getting fuzzy. And smaller, and less clear. And smaller still. And now the negative thought is gone altogether.

"Whoosh!" Suddenly the picture-in-picture image of you being successful is on a 42" screen in vivid colour. Say the word, "Whoosh!" as you see the picture of you being happy expand in front of you. Say "Whoosh!" as you see again as you accomplish your goals.

All of this is a kind of hypnotism, but that's nothing new to you. You've been hypnotizing yourself already, just with negative thinking rather than positive thinking. There's no shame it - we've all been there at one point or another in our lives, and most likely will again sometime down the road. The trick is to recognize, and acknowledge, that that's what you're doing, and to know that the power to correct that problem is under your control, at your fingertips, as it were.

Know that you can do it, right now. Think of something, do something, right now that makes you happy. If you have a goal that's been floating around intangibly in the back of your mind, do something about it, right now. An easy and helpful thing you can do is get a piece of paper, and write down your idea on it.

What are you doing tomorrow? Shape your destiny - realize the connection between what you know, what you believe, and what you can make reality by writing down what you're going to do tomorrow. Tomorrow, go out and do the things on your list. It's that simple: shape your destiny, realize your destiny.

It's right that you should feel good about yourself. It's right that you should be happy. It's right that you should be successful. You know that. Now start believing it. Is anyone ever going to give you exactly what you want in life? No. Is it possible that you are in control, and have the power, to tailor your destiny to your own design? Most definitely: YES.

 

[Bob Scott]

That's true. As soon as people see that I'm black and 25, they're immediately afraid of me.

I wish I were 25 again. I don't care what colour.

Never mind that I have 33 inventions,

WHY WON'T ANYONE GIVE ME A CHANCE?

Wow. One invention is a good as a PhD. Maybe put some emphasis on the inventions in your resume.

You need to get yourself some subsistence employment to coast on while you're in this temporary doldrum of your career. Maybe focus on writing some articles for publication. Add that to your resume. If you think your problem is due to discrimination, move West or North, any place that does not have that type of history. West is warmer, and they don't wear starched underwear.

 

[DigiTan]

If you don't mind me asking, what is your current occupation?

Right now I work at Radio Shack. When I can, I sign up for medical studies or surveys that pay maybe $20 - $80. I'd tried plasma donation, but my veins are too small. Even my own blood couldn't contribute anything.

I'll try out this positive thinking stuff. I should try getting back into the arts. I started working on my video game again and this is the first week in while I haven't wanted to kill myself. I've been doing some reading on young industrialists who started their businesses out of nothing. To be honest, I never saw myself as a 9-to-5 guy anyway, but I don't know where to begin. I'd tear my own arm off to put an end to this miserable "job search." And I'm definitely getting out of this hick state. This place and its HR ageists/racists has nothing to offer me. Not anymore.

 

[crust]

DigiTan, I am somewhat mystified, in like sentence #2, you want to try out the positive mindset. In sentence #4 you want to leave this backwards hick state. Not sure that corresponds with your sentence #2. BTW, I am from and reside in said hick state and I am also foreign. You are entitled to your own opinion, but I think the number of people that would fall under that umbrella is a very small minority. Lastly, you should consider borrowing and working through the book "what color is your parachute".

 

[Krumlink]

Try Silicon Valley (Calif), You are nearly guaranteed a job there, so much innovation and technology. Work for AMD not Intel though

 

[DigiTan]

DigiTan, I am somewhat mystified, in like sentence #2, you want to try out the positive mindset. In sentence #4 you want to leave this backwards hick state. Not sure that corresponds with your sentence #2. BTW, I am from and reside in said hick state and I am also foreign. You are entitled to your own opinion, but I think the number of people that would fall under that umbrella is a very small minority. Lastly, you should consider borrowing and working through the book "what color is your parachute".

Way too many bad memories here. Well, that's being unfair. It's the school I always hated. I could always count on that place to turn its back on me when I needed help the most. Hate the classes. Hate the people. Hate the buildings. My only real victory was getting the living **** out of that hellhole. Heck, the only reason I went to graduation was because my parents wanted to go. The A students there don't give a damn about electronics. Not unless there's a grade or some Latin honor in it for them. When I stared carrying my Watchdog and Calc DBS on me, no one could understand I built them for personal use. Robotics club was the only worthwhile outlet and most of those guys were grad students.

I'm looking mostly at the San Jose or San Diego areas. They're have more jobs anyways. Dallas is a "can't-do" city in a "can't-do" state.

 

[Bob Scott]

I'm looking mostly at the San Jose or San Diego areas. They're have more jobs anyways.

There are some nice enjoyable leading edge jobs in both software and hardware in San Jose, the kind you are proud to enter in your resume. But before you move to San Jose or SF, check out the cost of living in the "Bay Area", especially buying or renting a place to live. It takes a HUGE chunk of your income. As a man with an Engineering degree, this may not be a problem for you. I was working there a few years before 2005. Anyone who sold and moved out of the area could not afford to move back in.

I was extremely lucky. My working stay was temporary under the NAFTA treaty. I found a nice old man with a room for rent in his house for $600/mo.

 

[Hank Fletcher]

The A students there don't give a damn about electronics. Not unless there's a grade or some Latin honor in it for them. When I stared carrying my Watchdog and Calc DBS on me, no one could understand I built them for personal use. Robotics club was the only worthwhile outlet and most of those guys were grad students.

This is the number one reason I didn't do a PhD. By the time I finished my Master's, I was totally disgusted with the amount of "career" students who were more interested in doing the least to get credentials, without any ambition or sacrifice of their own in the interest of contributing to the body of human knowledge. It's bile-inducing pathetic, but you just have be content that people usually get what they put in, in the end.

Getting a job (I've got a good one now, but even back when I was doing not-so-good paying jobs) also helped me keep my priorities and personal agenda straight. Instead of trying to do back-flips through scholarship funding hoops, now I just have to factor the cost of my projects into the rest of my personal budget. This is surprisingly easy to do, and somehow much more satisfying. Based on everyone I've talked to and read about who I actually trust, getting out of school is the right thing to do. At this point, an undergrad is ample qualifications for being the next self-made millionaire.

A word of advice: absolutely pwn your RS job - don't be glib about it just because it's what you do to pay the bills. Go overkill on doing a good job, because it's the kind of job where that's easy to do. Don't be a kiss-ass, obviously, but be genuinely friendly towards your co-workers, boss, and customers. Just try to be conscious of doing well - even at simple tasks like a no-brainer job, it's a real buzz and will not go unappreciated. You can be that person, the one everyone looks forward to seeing at work: the cool guy. Whatever your McJob, everyday there is paid education: take a good attitude, and know that you're there to observe and prepare yourself for your future millionaire status. The owner of RS is a millionaire (probably even just the owner of your franchise), so go to work on a mission to look beyond the veil, to discover what it is they know about and how they do business that you don't.

I'm looking mostly at the San Jose or San Diego areas. They're have more jobs anyways.

This is not such a good idea. It's easy to find a job in a large city - it's much harder to find somewhere to eat and sleep that you can afford. If you're in debt, or you want to buy a house, or you want to have extra cash to invest in your own business, you want to start looking at cities with less than 300,000 people. The good news is, that's where most of America lives. The even better news is, it seems like you're not inhibited when it comes to relocating. The solution is simple: go to where the jobs are, and the cost of living is low. Finding the solution is harder, but read a newspaper you trust or surf the web for information about trends in jobs in America to find out what your options are geographically/economically speaking. A good contract in an otherwise down-and-out area can be a better personal and financial investment in the long run than a great contract in an area where you're constantly fighting to break even.

Don't be afraid to swim against the stream with respect to some trends: if everybody's moving to get a job in a certain area, it might be that there's a lot of competition there now. Take the extra minute to look beyond the obvious to those opportunities that other people might be walking right by. Where I live, the commonly told story is that there's high unemployment, and a declining population. The untold story is that local industry is desperate for anyone with a university degree or even a two-year college diploma, real estate is super-affordable (check out this fixer-upper downtown. I drove by it yesterday and the place is huge! The lot and the sort of second-storyish part of the building extends back at least 60 feet!**broken link removed**, they're asking $44,000, and it's been on the market awhile now), the cost of living here is next to nothing, the minimum wage is so ridiculously low that no company dares to suggest that that's what their employees should be earning, and it's beautiful out here (clean air, clean water, friendly people).