Electric bicycles.

[gophert]

I'm betting there are more diesels than you know. The modern diesel car and pickup truck have a system the injects DEF, diesel exhaust fluid, into them. Because of people(know who I mean?) complaining of the smell.

Yes, the smell of mixed nitrogen oxides. DEF, a simple urea/water solution, is an incredibly cheap antidote to NOx. The oxygen of NOx couples with the hydrogens of urea and you get H2O and Nitrogen.

The soot (black smoke) that audioguru mentions from diesel fuels and jet engines will soon be unmasked as a greater hazard that previously documented.

 

[rjenkinsgb]

The soot (black smoke) that @audioguru mentions from diesel fuels and jet engines will soon be unmasked as a greater hazard that previously documented.

That is a well-known serious hazard.

And why all newer diesel vehicles (in Europe, at least) have a "Diesel particulate filter" - DPF - or some equivalent system fitted. I think that was law from around 2006?
That's either in conjunction with or an alternate to the DEF catalyst system.

Diesel particulate filter - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The DPF is something like a ceramic or metal catalyst filter that captures any soot particles and burns them away to gasses. There are a lot of variations, but newer ones tend to have zero smoke release or pretty close, even on large trucks.

I know the USA has some emissions laws, but apparently nothing like as strict as Europe - stunts like the "Rolling coal" fad in the US would likely get you arrested and the vehicle impounded in Europe.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

I think only a few VW cars are diesel here.
Most trucks produce black smoke with each gear shift.

Presumably Canada has serious problems then?, and slack antique legislation - perhaps they need to move forward from the 1950's?

What about the noise of diesel engines smashing themselves to pieces? They are obvious.

You've obviously NEVER driven a modern diesel then - it's pretty well impossible to tell if it's petrol or diesel, and as they are FAR more reliable and long lived than petrol engines they hardly 'smash themselves to pieces'

I've never owned a diesel car, and I doubt I ever will?, but I've driven plenty, both cars and vans.

On the 'cheap' car makes it's always been said that they are three 'classes' of diesel engine:

Ford - crap.

Vauxhall - good.

Citroen/Peugeot - best.

However, the 'better' makes like Audi and BMW make stunning diesel engines - and the Audi racing team have been winning everything with their diesel cars, thrashing all the petrol engined ones.

Mind you, I think it's a relatively pointless discussion, as it won't be many years now until neither petrol or diesel engined vehicles are no longer manufactured - certainly well within the life times of many members here.

 

[Diver300]

Land Rover trialled some Diesel Range Rovers in the US. They let potential customers drive them.

In many cases, when the Land Rover employee asked if they would like to try a Diesel version, the potential customers refused, saying the Diesel version would be too noisy/smokey/smelly/slow, and totally unlike the one they had just been driving, which was, of course, the Diesel one, but had been assumed to be a petrol one by the driver.

 

[Pommie]

My daughter has a diesel ute which I've driven a few times and couldn't identify any difference to my petrol 4wd.

Mike.
P.S. Agree fossil fueled vehicles wont be produced much longer.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

My daughter has a diesel ute which I've driven a few times and couldn't identify any difference to my petrol 4wd.

Yes, I've driven a number of diesel vehicles, where you just don't know what it is - you can see how people can easily put the wrong fuel in

I always used to do my best NOT to refuel the diesel vans at work - on the grounds that I didn't want to get in to the habit of using a diesel pump

I've driven a couple of BMW 118 diesels, and they go like a rocket for only a 1.8 engine, they give no indication that they aren't a petrol engine. Only snag with them, I couldn't get in and out without banging my head? - even if I really concentrated I still did it - no idea why, it's never happened on any other car. Anyway, I'm not planning buying one, so it's not an issue

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Land Rover trialled some Diesel Range Rovers in the US. They let potential customers drive them.

In many cases, when the Land Rover employee asked if they would like to try a Diesel version, the potential customers refused, saying the Diesel version would be too noisy/smokey/smelly/slow, and totally unlike the one they had just been driving, which was, of course, the Diesel one, but had been assumed to be a petrol one by the driver.

Problem with Range Rovers, you REALLY need a diesel version, who could afford to put petrol in one?

I was waiting behind a lady once while refuelling, I was in a work van, a small petrol Suzuki 'sooty' van - which at the time you could just about squeeze £20 of fuel in it - so I was watching this lady fill her Range Rover, and she put over £90 in it!

 

[gophert]

Problem with Range Rovers, you REALLY need a diesel version, who could afford to put petrol in one?

Based on price per volume? Isn't diesel more expensive? You may be living in your own sheltered time warp. Highway diesel with low sulfur is generally more costly than similar volumes of other fuels. Slightly higher energy content per volume but its been more spendy in every country I've travelled.

 

[audioguru]

Here in Canada, commercial jet airplanes do not produce exhaust smoke anymore but military jets at airshows do (from the afterburner?).
Most diesel trucks produce smoke maybe because most are old since a diesel engine lasts for a long time, even though they sound like they are smashing to pieces. Are smoky VW diesel cars still cheating the pollution law?

Don't get used to filling up with diesel fuel? I have seen VW cars smoking like they are vaping (they disappear in the smoke) probably because it was designed to use gasoline but was filled by mistake with diesel fuel.

Nitrous oxide? I think that is the stink produced by US muscle cars from the 60ies. There are still a few of those cars on the road. Teens who blacken the windows and lower their new cars have the muffler removed and the pollution controls are also removed to smell the same as 60ies cars.

 

[Diver300]

A faulty Diesel engine will smoke badly. I once disturbed the pipe that carried compressed air from the turbocharger to the engine, so there was a lot of air escaping that had been measured by the air flow meter. I notice the smoke and turned back for home, where I found and fixed the problem.

I suspect that a lot of vehicles with visible smoke have been tuned for more power, without regard for how much pollution results.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Based on price per volume? Isn't diesel more expensive? You may be living in your own sheltered time warp. Highway diesel with low sulfur is generally more costly than similar volumes of other fuels. Slightly higher energy content per volume but its been more spendy in every country I've travelled.

Diesel is slightly more expensive, but you get considerably more miles per gallon from it - so it's quite a bit cheaper to run a diesel version - to the extent that's it's fairly rare to see petrol Range Rovers over here.

A quick google claims 20% more mpg with diesel - I still wouldn't buy one though - mind you, I didn't have an option, as there's no diesel version of my car sold in the UK (there is elsewhere though).

 

[shortbus=]

Teens who blacken the windows and lower their new cars have the muffler removed and the pollution controls are also removed to smell the same as 60ies cars.

How often do you say, "hey you kids! get off my lawn"?

 

[shortbus=]

What about the noise of diesel engines smashing themselves to pieces?

you may know electronics, but don't know anything about engines. The "smashing themselves to pieces" is due to them being compression ignition not spark ignition. And that has pretty much been solved now with better/bigger cooling passages used as sound insulation in them.

 

[audioguru]

About the only diesel cars in Canada are Volkswagen (made in Mexico?) and their little engines clatter almost as loud as diesel truck engines.

 

[shortbus=]

About the only diesel cars in Canada are Volkswagen

What? No Mercedes in Canada? Or for that matter - BMW 328d xDrive, BMW 540d xDrive, Chevrolet Cruze / Cruze Hatch, Chevrolet Equinox, GMC Terrain, Jaguar XE, Jaguar XF, Jaguar F-Pace Just because they don't rattle or smoke doesn't mean they can't be a diesel.

 

[Diver300]

What? No Mercedes in Canada? Or for that matter - BMW 328d xDrive, BMW 540d xDrive, Chevrolet Cruze / Cruze Hatch, Chevrolet Equinox, GMC Terrain, Jaguar XE, Jaguar XF, Jaguar F-Pace Just because they don't rattle or smoke doesn't mean they can't be a diesel.

I don't think that Jaguars are offered in the Diesel versions in Canada. Probably because gasoline is just about untaxed in Canada and USA.

Many manufacturers offer different ranges in different countries. There was a thead about this over a decade ago:- https://www.electro-tech-online.com/threads/the-65-mpg-ford-the-u-s-cant-have.42087/

(The same comments came from the same people in that thread as well)

 

[audioguru]

I have never seen, heard or smelled your list of diesel cars in Canada. Chevrolet dropped the diesel engine from 2020 Chevrolet Equinox and GMC Terrain, guess why.
Taxes on gasoline in Canada average 34%.

 

[Pommie]

A thread about electric bikes turned into one of AGs favourite topics. BTW AG, you forgot to mention China.

Mike.

 

[audioguru]

Aren't Chinese cars powered by pedals?

 

[gophert]

Aren't Chinese cars powered by pedals?

Those pedal powered devices are not called a cars - in China or elsewhere.