Federal Light Bulb Legislation.

[jpanhalt]

[*]They do contain mercury (though as Klipstein points out, far less than regular fluorescent tubes, and their energy savings helps to reduce mercury emissions from coal-fired power plants, at least in theory)

But, it puts the mercury in the home, potentially, where it is more likely to hurt children and adults.

Arguably, the amount of mercury, lead, etc. on earth is constant. The argument against leaded fuels, paint, and solder is not that they increase the amount of lead in the environment as a whole, but that they change the distribution to where people are. Why doesn't the same argument apply to the politically favored CFL too?

John

 

[carbonzit]

You notice I put that modifier phrase in parentheses. I agree with you: mercury sucks. Our exposure to it should be as close to zero as possible.

Having said that, the argument goes that, on balance, CFLs reduce the overall burden of mercury by removing it from large point sources (i.e., power plants). I'm not sure I totally buy that argument: I'm just stating it.

All this begs the whole question of the higher energy and material costs for CFLs vs. ordinary incandescents, plus what to do with the crap once the bulb is dead. Of course, we're spozed to recycle them in some approved manner, but how many people actually do that? I see CFLs in the trash all the time. (And if they do get recycled, chances are it's by some Chinese or Indian kids digging through an immense scrap heap of shredded bulbs with no protection whatsoever. All Hail the New Economy!)

 

[kinarfi]

When buying CFLs, check the color temperature on them, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_temperature, I recently got some with a 5500k rating and like them a lot better because the light output is much whiter instead of the warm white (yellow) of the 3500k, another place they are great is in drop lights, have been burned by one yet.

 

[gary350]

Your math doesn't add up. 2000 hours of burning a 100W incandescent is 200KWH of electricity. Assuming about $.075 per KWH, that's 15 bucks for electricity, plus .31=$15.31

For the Halogen, 2000 hours of burning 72W is 144KWH. At the same price for electricity, that's $10.80 plus 4.98 = $15.78. The cost for using Halogen is only 47 cents more.

I did my math off of the paper hand out from the hardware store that tells old light bulb watts compared to new light bulb watts it is about 26 to 33% depending on the bulb so 30% as a round number. 30% is the saving for the light bulbs only not the total electric bill. I read online for the average home 5% of the electric bill is for lights. If I buy some new lights and install them I am only in 1 room at a time and I always turn the light off when I leave a room so I came up with about .31 cent saving for me for a whole month. That is sure not 100% accurate as we all know but its a close guess. I am an out side person from the time the sun comes up to the time the sun goes down I am rarely in the house, I come it to get a snack, a drink, use the toilet, check email, etc. but other than that I am not in the house much during the day. Electric rates are low here compared to other place my relatives that live in other states pay about double what I pay.

 

[audioguru]

I bought name-brand CFL bulbs when they were on sale. They are guaranteed to last 7 years. When one fails after a few years then I simply phone the manufacturer who sends me a coupon for two or four. Then I never buy CFL bulbs again because the replacements are free. The replacements for the replacements are also frewe.

I have them outside in winter and they light when the temperature is 0 degrees F or -18 degrees C but they are dim for a minute.

 

[cr0sh]

Since reading this thread and everything else - I'm trying to figure out just what I am going to have to replace my 4 foot tubular flourescents in my shop and garage with? I suppose I could get a bunch of light bases and use screw-in CFLs, but as others have noted, and in my experience - such an orientation (with the base above the lamp) tends to lead to a much shorter lifespan. I suppose that an LED-based tubular lamp could be bought (might already be possible to purchase - I haven't looked) - but such a lamp couldn't be cheap; I'll need four for my shop, and six for the garage. Maybe I should just stock up on the tubular lamps ahead of time. Sigh.

 

[Reloadron]

Since reading this thread and everything else - I'm trying to figure out just what I am going to have to replace my 4 foot tubular flourescents in my shop and garage with? I suppose I could get a bunch of light bases and use screw-in CFLs, but as others have noted, and in my experience - such an orientation (with the base above the lamp) tends to lead to a much shorter lifespan. I suppose that an LED-based tubular lamp could be bought (might already be possible to purchase - I haven't looked) - but such a lamp couldn't be cheap; I'll need four for my shop, and six for the garage. Maybe I should just stock up on the tubular lamps ahead of time. Sigh.

Hi Crosh

As it stands now it is only incandescent bulbs facing extinction. Standard fluorescent bulbs are not on the endangered spices list that I am aware of. Hell, we just replaced all the sodium lamps in several large work areas with high intensity fluorescent lamps. They went with T5HO lamps and the things are incredible. Anyway, standard lamps like you have should be fine. That is my guess anyway.

Ron

 

[carbonzit]

You might want to get a fixture with those newfangled slimline tubes (dunno what they're called--T-1-1/2 or something?). Supposed to be more efficient than the bigger old tubes.

 

[strantor]

I just read through this whole post and the list of exemptions. It looks like they're specifically targeting household incandescent bulbs. Why? Carbonzit, I won't argue that the CFL bulbs are not good; they are. I just moved into this house last year and it was completely decked out in CFLs; my first experience with them. I am impressed. These little 14W bulbs put out like a 60W or better incandescent. In the absence of this law, I would probably buy them from here on out. I won't argue that the law is strict; it's not; it's intentionally full of loopholes, just like you said. But when the government comes in and outlaws something mundane like a light bulb just because it can, I have a serious problem with that. you don't? I also have a serious problem with the fact that we've now pledged all our light bulb dollars to china.

I'm not going to list all my gripes, because Ted Poe sums it up pretty well here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv59PJ30WeM&feature=related

...what he said

 

[carbonzit]

This issue cuts so many ways that it's a gross oversimplification to say that "the government is outlawing incandescents just because it can". This imputes that "the government" is just capricious, and that there aren't any compelling reasons to do away with incandescents. There are: energy savings isn't just a good thing, but essential, in the overall scheme of things, to the survival of humankind.

So there's that. Of course, on the other side, there is the "nanny state", which I don't care for either, and there are pinheaded bureaucrats who make decisions not based on reality or sound science or even common sense.

But overall, it's a good thing that we're at least paying attention to the enormous amounts of energy that we waste. Same thing goes for building codes regarding insulation, window glazing, etc.

 

[strantor]

This issue cuts so many ways that it's a gross oversimplification to say that "the government is outlawing incandescents just because it can". This imputes that "the government" is just capricious, and that there aren't any compelling reasons to do away with incandescents.

I don't care if the government sees any compelling reasons. A compelling reason to me might not be a compelling reason to you. A compelling reason to you might not be a compelling reason to the government. It's subjective, and we are becoming subjects. You might be Obsessive Compulsive. As part of your OCD, you may only make right hand turns while driving. You may drive all the way around the block to pull into a driveway right to your left. The government may (rightly) see this as inefficient, and thus have a "compelling reason" to enforce a left turn policy on you. but do they have the right?

There are: energy savings isn't just a good thing, but essential, in the overall scheme of things, to the survival of humankind.

really? I fail to see any connection between energy savings and the survival of the human race. If electricity disappeared tomorrow, I would be greatly inconvenienced, but I would be alive (for years to come). The human race survived for thousands or millions of years before light bills and we can do it again.

 

[BrownOut]

If you only make right turns , you won't be issued a driver's license. If electricity disappeared tomorrow, then we'd be back to 19th century living conditions, and most likely, 19 century population. That means a whole bunch of people would not survive. Why are you certain you would be one of the lucky few?

 

[strantor]

I wouldn't be one of the lucky few, I would be one of the prepared few.
Please excuse my use of dramatic examples; I find that my point can be lost, or the discussion dragged off to unrelated topics if I draw too many parallels to real world events or things that can actually happen. Yes, a bunch of people would die, but the human race would not. Anyway it's not going to happen like that. If anything happens, that is, barring the unlikely event that mandating CFL bulbs is not successful in warding off the energy crisis, it will just be a gradual increase of energy bills until people have to start cutting back. I think of it like the morbidly obese (pardon the overuse of analogies, once again). you can only get so fat on your own. On the day you wake up and are so fat that you can't get out of bed and into the kitchen, you either perish or lose weight. Same with us; on the day that we can't pay our electric bill, we will either die(?) or stop using so much. But that should be our decision to make, and we need it not made for us. There's no law saying that you can only eat so much to maintain a specified level of mobility, and there should be no law that we need to use a certain light bulb.

 

[BrownOut]

Well, it was your example. There is no way for individuals to prepare for such an event. The future does indeed require preparations, but they will only be successful if the preparations are made by the population. We should do this and much, much more to prepare for the future.

Not long ago, a series of tornados knocked out the power for my city for 4 days. All of the things we take for granted weren't available. No ice, no freezers to preserve food in, no air conditioning... Only 4 days, but it threw the city into disarray. Some people, like me, had generators to get through, but they also required energy. Had it been a real energy emergency, even having gensets wouldn't help.

 

[cr0sh]

Hi Crosh

As it stands now it is only incandescent bulbs facing extinction. Standard fluorescent bulbs are not on the endangered spices list that I am aware of. Hell, we just replaced all the sodium lamps in several large work areas with high intensity fluorescent lamps. They went with T5HO lamps and the things are incredible. Anyway, standard lamps like you have should be fine. That is my guess anyway.

Ron

Then why in the first post does it mention:

7/14/2012, no more T12 or T8 with 2 pin fluorescent light bulbs.

...am I reading that wrong? A GIS for "T12 fluorescent" or "T8 fluorescent" certainly seems to bring up images of bulbs that look like the lights in my shop and garage...

???

 

[gary350]

Since reading this thread and everything else - I'm trying to figure out just what I am going to have to replace my 4 foot tubular flourescents in my shop and garage with? I suppose I could get a bunch of light bases and use screw-in CFLs, but as others have noted, and in my experience - such an orientation (with the base above the lamp) tends to lead to a much shorter lifespan. I suppose that an LED-based tubular lamp could be bought (might already be possible to purchase - I haven't looked) - but such a lamp couldn't be cheap; I'll need four for my shop, and six for the garage. Maybe I should just stock up on the tubular lamps ahead of time. Sigh.

I have 20 4ft fluorscents lights in my garage workshop. For the past 20 years I have replaced about 95% of the bulbs. 20 fixtures = 40 bulbs. I bought a whole case of 4ft fluorescent bulbs today I have enough bulbs for the next 20 years. The cost of a case of bulbs and the money I am not saving for 20 years is much cheaper than new light fixtures and new bulbs. In 20 more years I will be either 81 yrs old or dead so I don't need to worry about it. Only the 2 pin fluorscent bulbs will be banned.

 

[OlPhart]

Nobody mentions dimmers...

Bought this house 7/91, ~1300 sqft, changed out Every Switch with zero-cross dimmers. I mean closets, basement Everything. I use 60W throughout... I've replaced 4 bulbs in 20 YEARS. Disclaimer: no spouse or rugrats who don't know what "dim" or "off" means.

Until they make LEDs with a Much longer life, I'm getting a case of 60W and know I'll die with half+ left. I won't consider CCFLs, I've Never seen them in an acceptable location: dim, slow & Bad cold performance.

However, just because this works for me gives me NO right to request/demand/let alone force others to adhere. What's next, the only large vehicles are restored historics? Anybody else see a slippery slope? <<<)))

 

[audioguru]

My government gave away CFL light bulbs to save energy. They were defective, dangerous and recalled but that is another story.
They also "traded" LED Christmas lights for wasteful incandescent ones so that we would not have brownouts caused by too much electricity waste at Christmas time.

Me and most of my neighbours use CFL light bulbs. Most stores and restaurants too.

 

[Mr RB]

A 100W equv CFL bulb uses about 23W, has 12K hours est life and costs about 6 bucks.
...

Apart from the reality that CFLs blow up after 2 to 4 months. Once you are required to use them by "law" (as we are in Australia) then there is no need for the manufacturers or importers to sell you quality product as it becomes an "evil monopoly" and you don't have any choice. So quality drops through the floor. You guys will find out soon enough.

...
incandescent bulb: 12000*100W= 1200KWHX.075= $90 + 12*.15= $91.80.
CFL bulb: 12000*23W= 276KWH*.075=$20.70+~$6~=20.70.
...

That looks good on paper, until you factor in that 12000 hours of CFL will require 10 more more CFLs (based on my own findings anyway). Also, when they blow up it is usually the HV electrolytic capacitor, that spews really toxic fumes through the whole house.

Also factor in the time and hassle of replacing them and the trips to the store, and if you value environmental concerns then factor in the nasty manufacturing of PCBs, capacitors, mercury, fluorescent materials for 10 CFLs compared to the manufacturing of 1 or 2 glass and tungsten bulbs...

Also domestic electricity is maybe 8% of the national usage as 92% is used by commercial and industry, and out of that the lighting uses only a tiny percentage of your domestic power as 90% goes to heating, cooking, hotwater, and appliances. So it's a crock, pure and simple.

However there is SOME good news. Once they make the incandescents unsellable in the retail outlets you can pick up cases of them real cheap, maybe even free. They should store ok.

 

[jpanhalt]

I agree with MrRB and add one small point. Current pricing for CFL's includes in many areas (e.g., US, Canada) government subsidies. The real cost and unsubsidized price are hidden. Price comparisons between a non-subsidized item and a subsidized item are always misleading.

Back to the original post. I spent some time last night searching the Federal Register (USA) for the regulation affecting fluorescent bulbs and requiring production of the two-pin bulb varieties (T12, T8) to cease to cease 7/14/2012. All I could find were regulations related to efficiency of the ballasts. You will notice that new T12 fixtures are very hard to find. However, the bulbs are still available.

Can anyone post a link to a more authoritative source for that claim?

John