Giving some back!

[Torben]

Torben, given where you live, I don't understand how you can say this. It seems to me that in this country you almost need a diploma, even to wash dishes.

I can see that for many jobs, but some counterpoints:

My best friend has 1 year of community college. He also owns and operates a successful and popular (as in, having very loyal employees) forestry contracting company in northern B.C. which is now in its seventh year. He is also now half owner of Vancouver's second-favourite (according to the Georgia Straight) indie record store. His brother has AFAIK no post-secondary, and now runs a 5-processor operation full time (each processor is worth around a third of a million) and makes money at it--which he plows straight into savings and investments. (For those who don't know forestry, in this context a "processor" is a great big honkin' machine which turns trees into logs.)

Another fellow I know swore to his father that he'd be a millionaire by 30. No post-secondary education; he just learned to build houses. He kept his promise.

Part of the problem is thinking that you need someone to give you a job. If you have the drive, you can make your own. Doesn't work for everybody, of course.

I have any number of friends who do OK in the service industry with little or no post-secondary education. Granted, they're often using it to pay for university, and after a few years of it most folks seem to want to slit their wrists.

With the current amount of development in the lower mainland and south island, if you can swing a hammer or carry rebar, you can get a job. Not a career, probably, but you can put food on the table and bulk up a resume.

It also seems that no one will believe you could ever learn anything on your own, no matter how well educated you are, (unless of course that education is in a technological field.) Even then, I doubt there are many people in this country who use even ten percent of what they learned.

I totally agree with you on the value of some degrees. I have seen people who have not just received a Master's degree, without even having a good grip on the fundamentals, but also have been promoted to a teaching position because they are friendly and flattering to the person doing the hiring.

On the other hand, like yourself, I know people who don't have a degree, and show more intelligence than some of the 'educated' people I have met.

I agree with all of that.


Torben

[Edit: Poor Georgia. I spelt it 'George' originally.]

 

[3v0]

In general.

If you are any good at what you do, degree or no, most of what you know is self taught.

Some people go to school and only learn what they need to take the tests. OK for getting a grade but not too useful when it comes to the real world.

This speaks to the difficulty of creating a good test and grading in general.

Getting good grades is a skill that is not tightly linked to learning or understanding the subject. If you can get far enough inside a profs head you know what his test will contain.

An education is like most everything else. It is only worth what you put into it. Tempered by your understanding of the process.

 

[Torben]

Don't know if you knew, but doctors still screw up. Haven't you heard of those numerous wrong operations done on people, and surgeons sewing up their gloves, tools, or rags inside someone? Hell sometimes getting operated on puts you in worse condition than you already were.

Of course they screw up; they're human. And many are overworked, and some aren't as good as their papers would have you believe. But that in no way implies that Joe Sixpack who thinks he knows something about surgery from watching the Open Learning channel and House is going to screw up less. I *still* know which one I'd want taking the risk.


Torben

 

[Torben]

In general.

If you are any good at what you do, degree or no, most of what you know is self taught.

Some people go to school and only learn what they need to take the tests. OK for getting a grade but not too useful when it comes to the real world.

This speaks to the difficulty of creating a good test and grading in general.

Getting good grades is a skill that is not tightly linked to learning or understanding the subject. If you can get far enough inside a profs head you know what his test will contain.

An education is like most everything else. It is only worth what you put into it. Tempered by your understanding of the process.

Exactly.


Torben

 

[BeeBop]

In general.

If you are any good at what you do, degree or no, most of what you know is self taught.

Some people go to school and only learn what they need to take the tests. OK for getting a grade but not too useful when it comes to the real world.

This speaks to the difficulty of creating a good test and grading in general.

Getting good grades is a skill that is not tightly linked to learning or understanding the subject. If you can get far enough inside a profs head you know what his test will contain.

An education is like most everything else. It is only worth what you put into it. Tempered by your understanding of the process.

Very Well said! I couldn't agree more.

Part of the problem is thinking that you need someone to give you a job. If you have the drive, you can make your own. Doesn't work for everybody, of course.

Probably the path to the most happiness, and the most work. I think the two are connected.

 

[ericgibbs]

hi,
Speaking from personal experience, I was in the employed in electronics from 1950 to 2005.

The basic rules and formula of electronics very rarely change, what changes is the current technology.
A great deal of what you are a wizz kid at today will be in a few years time will be old hat.

In this industry learning the latest technology is a fundamental part being a good engineer, today and tomorrow and the day after.
[ I think Nigel G, will know exactly what I am saying]

At my ripe age of 75 years I still enjoy learning and using the latest technology,
all being well, when my time comes 'I will die with the pedal to the metal'

Regards

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

hi,
Speaking from personal experience, I was in the employed in electronics from 1950 to 2005.

The basic rules and formula of electronics very rarely change, what changes is the current technology.
A great deal of what you are a wizz kid at today will be in a few years time will be old hat.

In this industry learning the latest technology is a fundamental part being a good engineer, today and tomorrow and the day after.
[ I think Nigel G, will know exactly what I am saying]

Yes, you have to keep up with new technology, otherwise you're left behind.

At my ripe age of 75 years I still enjoy learning and using the latest technology,
all being well, when my time comes 'I will die with the pedal to the metal'

That's when you put your foot on the wrong pedal!