Help with Water Pump

[tehawk]

Thank you very much for info !

Pump is submersible aquarium pump 18W, 220V, 50 Hz

Thought of buying this model
**broken link removed**

Thank you for Octal relay socket I wanted to ask about that.



Is this correct considering AC current.

 

[alec_t]

The relay contacts are rated 250V AC 5A Resistive. The pump draws ~ 0.1A AC when running. Peak current at start-up would be, perhaps, ~1A. However, the pump is an inductive load. We don't know the inductive load rating of the contacts. I would guess that 5A resistive rated contacts would cope with 1A inductive loads. It's a gamble.
A snubber across the contacts would be needed.

Edit: Do you really need an octal socket? From the pic it looks as though there are screw terminals as well as the octal plug.

 

[KeepItSimpleStupid]

@Alec
He put both pics together (Timer and socket).

Wiring
Power does go to the timer power pins.
The contacts, though, are potential free.

If your in a country where the 220 service is grounded (This would not be the US), then you have to switch only the HOT side of the AC line.

8 and 6 are one of the potential free sets of the NO or Normally Open contacts. This set of contacts has to be in SERIES with the HOT lead of the pump.

@alec
Want to draw a wiring diagram for him?

As Alec said, it would be BEST to get another relay whose contacts are rated as Inductive or better yet add a solid state relay such as this one. **broken link removed**

The contacts of the timer would effectively have a very tiny load on them and the sold state relay would do the switching. It's important to fuse the solid state relay. If you fuse it for the pump (Normal blow fuse), about 10x pump steady state current and the SSR is rated MUCH higher than the pump, you probably don't have use a semiconductor I2t fuse. AT least that's been my experience.

With an extra relay, the wiring is getting even more complicated, but very reliable.

 

[tehawk]

Thank you very much for reply and info.

My apology for hijacking thread.

Ill make my own or continue through pm.

Take care

 

[KeepItSimpleStupid]

Joe - You have earned it

@Joe

I put your "merit badge" in the mail today.
I couldn't resist. One badge and two stickers.

You earned it!

 

[salty joe]

Thanks-that's funny.

 

[salty joe]

Hey! Look who showed up today. My little buddy Blue Smoke. He is an exotic variety of Magic Smoke. Thanks KISS - he'll live on the electronics enclosure. For good luck.

I've gone back to plan B for the filtration pumps. I think I'm going to use two new pumps on low with their OEM controller. It's a lot simpler for me, plus their controller has a ten minute pump pause. I really like your speed control Alec, I enjoyed getting it to work-thanks for helping me do that-and I appreciate the fact that you're OK with me using the new pump and new pump controller for the filter. (PM)

Until the rest of the new pumps arrive, is there a chance of tackling emergency backup? I'm pretty sure I have all the parts except for the SLA battery. For a test run, could a regular 12V car battery be used? I have one pump here.

Thanks all!

 

[KeepItSimpleStupid]

Glad you liked him. You didn't post a pic of the sew/iron on patch? Did you loose it? It was taped with the wierd orange tape. Note, the tape can withstand 200 deg C. and still easily peel off.

A car battery is OK. Just keep an eye on the voltage of the battery and don't let it dip below 11 V, preferably higher.

 

[alec_t]

Here's a back-up arrangement based on Ronv's, using two of the new OEM supplies, 2 PDMs and two OEM controllers:


Edit: Superseded.

 

[salty joe]

Thanks Alec, I'll study that schematic tomorrow.

 

[ronv]

Alec,

The one I posted was based on fig. 9 in this data sheet.

https://www.ti.com/product/lm317

I used a battery low voltage of about 11.8 volts based on curves like this:

**broken link removed**

I bet you have the low current version of the 317 like I do so it won't simulate right at high current because the 317 current limits at 850 ma. in the small version vs. 1.5 amps for the TO 220.

Check me out though I could be wrong.

 

[alec_t]

I bet you have the low current version of the 317 like I do so it won't simulate right at high current because the 317 current limits at 850 ma. in the small version vs. 1.5 amps for the TO 220.

I wasn't aware there were two models and am not sure which one I've got. However, to avoid stressing the 317 or the new OEM power supply in the event that the battery voltage dropped as far as 10-11V the charge current in the circuit in post #1829 is limited to ~ 0.5A. I've since had second thoughts about using the new OEM supply to power both a pump and the charger, as Joe did mention that when powering a pump [only] the new supply gets 'warm'. So here's a revised circuit with the 'old' 20V supply powering the charger.

 

[ericgibbs]

hi alec,
Look here for 1.5A LM317 option.

https://www.electro-tech-online.com/threads/317-to220-spice-model.133769/

E.

 

[salty joe]

Here's the LM317 I have. Will it do? **broken link removed**

For plan B, I was going to use a pair of the new pumps for filtration. I wanted to use their power supplies, controllers and pumps set on low. Is there a way to splice a backup into their setup without needing another pair of PDMs? Backing up only one of the pumps would be fine.

Hi Eric, glad you're here-I like your byline.

Thanks all.

 

[alec_t]

@Eric
Thanks for that link. I'll have a play.

@Joe
That LM317 should do nicely.

Is there a way to splice a backup into their setup without needing another pair of PDMs?

It's up to you whether you use PDMs as belt and braces, of course. If you don't want to, then just provide substitutes for the D2's in the PDMs and connect the posted circuit 'Pump+' outputs to the +24V inputs of the new OEM controllers.

 

[salty joe]

Ohhhh, I overlooked the safety factor. I do have another pair of PDMs, but they are giving me grief. I'll get them squared away and use them. Thanks. Plan B includes a pair of PDMs.

Am I correct to assume that if each pump is plugged into its own dedicated GFI (GFIs wired in paralell) if any GFI is tripped, it will only affect the pump plugged into that GFI?

On a side note, I dropped the "wake the dead" pizo and it no longer works. I took a peek inside of it and it has a small handful of parts. I could not find any broken connections. Are some parts more prone to break when dropped than others? Not a major deal, it would be nice to fix though.

 

[alec_t]

Am I correct to assume that if each pump is plugged into its own dedicated GFI (GFIs wired in paralell) if any GFI is tripped, it will only affect the pump plugged into that GFI?

Sorry, can't say, as I have no knowledge of what the circuitry inside your GFI is. Or did you mean plugging the new power supplies into GFIs?
I don't see how 'GFIs wired in parallel' would work. If one of them tripped the other would still conduct current.

The most breakage-prone parts of the beeper would probably be the piezo element itself and any fine-wire connections to it. The solder joints of the heavier components (e.g. large electrolytic) could also be suspect and would need inspection under magnification.

 

[salty joe]

Sorry, can't say, as I have no knowledge of what the circuitry inside your GFI is. Or did you mean plugging the new power supplies into GFIs?
I don't see how 'GFIs wired in parallel' would work. If one of them tripped the other would still conduct current.

The most breakage-prone parts of the beeper would probably be the piezo element itself and any fine-wire connections to it. The solder joints of the heavier components (e.g. large electrolytic) could also be suspect and would need inspection under magnification.

Yes, sorry, I meant plugging each new power supply into a dedicated GFI. In paralell so that if one trips only a single pump goes offline. That's the idea anyway.

I'll get that little screamer under my magnifier.

 

[alec_t]

I meant plugging each new power supply into a dedicated GFI. In paralell so that if one trips only a single pump goes offline.

Should work, unless a master GFI protecting the whole house wiring also trips as a result.

 

[KeepItSimpleStupid]

GFI's can be wired in parallel, so only one trips. Just don't use the GFI out.

You may have to "pigtail" to use that option. (Wire in + Wire out + pigtail to GFI) connected with a wirenut. do the same for N and HOT.

With the grounds do the same. If all of the GFCI's are in the same box wire the grounds together, then pigtail to the GFCI ground and have a single pigtail to the outlet box (if metal).

There are some unique devices that can be used for wiring.

Ground pigtails can be purchased in solid and stranded with separate clips (onto a box) or fork terminals to attach to ground screws.

You will probably use plastic boxes, so some of what I said won't apply. The general rule is that the ground on the outlet has to be bonded to the ground. You cannot USUALLY rely on the outlet or switch fixing screw to provide the ground to the box.