improving english language

[ljcox]

Hint, the words that are repeated are spelt the same but have slightly different pronounciations.

eg. dove and dove. The first one is a bird, it is pronounced like "love". The second is the past tense of dive, it is pronounced like drove.

"Dove" is used in Canada and parts of the USA rather that "dived" since "dived" is considered to be clumsy.

It is seldom used in Australia.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

"Dove" is used in Canada and parts of the USA rather that "dived" since "dived" is considered to be clumsy.

It is seldom used in Australia.

That's because Australians speak a better class of English!

 

[epilot]

I'm also glad to see this thread revived as I enjoyed reading it when it was active. As a native English speaker I do not appreciate the complexity of the language until I see someone struggling to master it.

I chuckled when I read that your teacher said you only need to know 500-600 words to survive. There are thousands of base words which can be combined with numerous prefixes (like un, ex, in, etc.), suffixes (like ing, ed, ish, etc.), and voice inflection to form hundreds of thousands of combinations. Granted we don't regularly use a large portion of them but it helps to be able to understand them.

As far as your English is concerned, I don't think you would have much trouble communicating in person with a native English speaker as you seem to grasp the general concepts and common vocabulary. The beauty of English is there are so many ways to communicate the same idea that a reasonably educated person should be able to extract what you are trying to communicate from what you actually said.

Just keep in mind that I have been surrounded by English for all 26 years of my life and every now and then I still have to look up the meaning of words that I hear in every day conversation.

Thanks phalanx,

You are right about prefixes and suffixes, but usually it is rather easy for a foreigner who trying to learn English language to make a guess after knowing the meaning of several other words which use those prefixes and suffixes too. For instance if you know what 'UNusual" or 'UNhappy" are meaning in English thenyou can make a guess for a word like "unfortunately" or "unmarried" if you know the meaning of fortunately or married, and soon you can find out that the "un" usually is used to negate he adjective. Well, I want to say that one of the biggest problems to learning English is learning the meaning of compound sentences, you used one of them: "every now and then", thanks to my best dictionary I was able to understand the meaning of it, anyway I am appreciated of guys who use those sentences becuase it helps me to learn meaning of them correctly according to the whole sentence(if you know what I mean).

As well hope to use from your great opinions more and more in this thread

 

[epilot]

Thanks Robert,

First of all, yes, English has the largest vocabulary of any language; I learned the size was 275,000 words, when I studied English, but there seems to be some disagreement. I googled, and took this:

from this https://hypertextbook.com/facts/2001/JohnnyLing.shtml page.

Oops, I never thought so much vocabulary!! So I am too much beginner yet.

Epilot, while your teacher may have told you a lie, it was a 'white lie.' A white lie is one which doesn't hurt people. In fact, if you knew how much vocabulary, you may have given up, instead of working as hard as you did. I think you are doing well; I can see some improvement in the time you have been posting here.

Robert I like your assumptions and specially your phrases (you are a perfect teacher I think). Oh yes, 'white lie' is the best supposition of what my teacher is said.
Yes, 500000 words is (or are?) too much and perhaps knowing that could disappoint me at that time. I know a lot of those words are not being used daily, but even 100000 words was too much while I was in 9 class.

[/QUOTE]
Epilot, if you do come to Canada, you will have to work very hard to keep your status. Many people leave their home countries as doctors, nurses, etc. and end up working in a corner store. It is not at all fair. The woman I mentioned in my last post used to teach high school in Korea. Now she works in a corner store.[/QUOTE]

Well, I meant I want and will learn the English language by your helps in so far as everyone suppose me as a native Canadian. I have no intention going too any other country till I finish university. But I am not able to understand this: 'Many people leave their home countries as doctors, nurses, etc. and end up working in a corner store. It is not at all fair' because I have seen a lot of people in my country going to Canada and get pretty fair jobs, Even a countryman who is living in Cnada said me Canada is better than
America, he said that the charge of unnatural childbirth (sorry don't know the real name in English perhaps sezarian or...) of his wife became less than 100$ while it would be thousands of dollars if his wife was in the USA.
Canada and then America will be 2 of my first choices IF i decide to go to another country. I like India too beacuse I am sure I can see a lot of marvelous things there.

[/QUOTE]
I am also having a hard time with the price of electronic components in Canada. Seems like so many A-hole outfits blister pack a couple of resistors, and sell them for a dollar a resistor. The worst is cat5 cable, which is generally a dollar a foot, instead of the 5 to 10 cent I was paying, and batteries, which are more than ten times the price here. The book stores in Korea had tons of English books on embedded. Here, I haven't found a single one on the shelves. Also, the electronics markets in Korea were huge; the two which I frequented in Seoul were at least a couple of square kilometers in size. Here, the best I found was two stores close together on Main Street. One is run by a Chinese guy, and I like shopping there. There is a Future Active store, but it sucks. They had a couple of PICs (16F628s and 16F84a) and the price was around fifteen dollars each. Thank God we have the internet![/QUOTE]

yea, I am sure the electronic components are expensive in Europe and America, perhaps pecaus ethey are coming from korea .
I can get a LED for less than 25 cents here while I saw it for 40 cents in an american website.

 

[epilot]

Hint, the words that are repeated are spelt the same but have slightly different pronounciations.

eg. dove and dove. The first one is a bird, it is pronounced like "love". The second is the past tense of dive, it is pronounced like drove.

"Dove" is used in Canada and parts of the USA rather that "dived" since "dived" is considered to be clumsy.

It is seldom used in Australia.

Wow, Hello Len,

Yes thanks for the Hint, it was a very good hint, though I am not aware of that because I never talked with an English speaker, until now I have thought the different meaning of those words can be recognised just from the whole sentence. So it is necessary to ask several questions about 'stress' or 'accent' soon.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Yes thanks for the Hint, it was a very good hint, though I am not aware of that because I never talked with an English speaker, until now I have thought the different meaning of those words can be recognised just from the whole sentence. So it is necessary to ask several questions about 'stress' or 'accent' soon.

Well your written English is now EXCEPTIONALLY good, it's hard to tell it's not your first language!.

 

[epilot]

Well your written English is now EXCEPTIONALLY good, it's hard to tell it's not your first language!.

Nigel,
Many thanks for praises.
I think I have a lot of problems yet.

Well, I am not sure if you are aware of what I want to say, but Robert does (because he has lived in another country and specially in another continent with a completely different culture and language). Communicate in another language for someone who lives in else country with a completely different culture is too hard (it is too much harder for someone who have learnt its second language just by reading/writing not by liveng in the second country) even by knowing the whole vocabulary.
Think of me, sometimes I want to say what I have in my brain in English language, at first I suppose the sentence in my native language and see if it is a very effective and nice sentence, finally I have to change its nature (not only translating the original sentence ) to be sure that the listener is able to understand my meaning but the sentence loses its efect.
I can remember one of my English teachers in high school who said us that his friend went to Canada or America for education after passing a 6 monthes English learning class. one day he just translates a compound sentence in his native language to express gratitude but receives a slap! because the translated sentence was a damn in English (Sorry I am not able to remember the sentence but even if I do, Won't say it here because I fear to receive a good Slap from 'HiTech' .
Robert Has talked about those language barriers in this thread I think.

Anyway I like English language very much, It's funny.

 

[ljcox]

Wow, Hello Len,

Yes thanks for the Hint, it was a very good hint, though I am not aware of that because I never talked with an English speaker, until now I have thought the different meaning of those words can be recognised just from the whole sentence. So it is necessary to ask several questions about 'stress' or 'accent' soon.

I agree with Nigel, your English is now very good. In fact it is better than some whose first language is Eglish.

You still make the odd mistake, but it has improved significantly since we corresponded by email a year or two ago.

 

[epilot]

I agree with Nigel, your English is now very good. In fact it is better than some whose first language is Eglish.

You still make the odd mistake, but it has improved significantly since we corresponded by email a year or two ago.

Thanks Len,

Please let me know several of those 'odd' mistakes please, even if you have not time you can just highlight them, and then I'll try to see the problem

 

[ljcox]

I'll use this post as an example.

Nigel,
Many thanks for praises. Many thanks for your praise.
I think I have a lot of problems yet. This is OK, but you could say" I think I still have a lot of problems".

Well, I am not sure if you are aware of what I want to say, but Robert does (because he has lived in another country and specially in another continent with a completely different culture and language). Communicate Communication in another language for someone who lives in else another country with a completely different culture is too hard difficult (it is too (delete too) much harder for someone who have has learnt its their second language just by reading/writing not by liveng living in the second country) even by knowing the whole vocabulary.
Think of me, sometimes I want to say what I have in my brain in English language (delete language), at first I suppose compose the sentence in my native language and see if it is a very effective and nice sentence, finally I have to change its nature structure (not only translating the original sentence ) to be sure that the listener is able to understand my meaning but and the sentence loses its efect does not lose its effect.
I can remember one of my English teachers in high school who said told us that his friend went to Canada or America for education after passing a 6 monthes month English learning language class. one One day he just translates translated a compound sentence in his native language to express gratitude but receives received a slap! because the translated sentence was a damn an insult (or do you mean a swear word)in English (Sorry I am not able to remember the sentence but even if I do, Won't I won't say it here because I fear to I may receive a good Slap from 'HiTech' .
Robert Has has talked about those language barriers in this thread I think.

Anyway I like the English language very much, It's it's funny.

 

[epilot]

I'll use this post as an example.

Thank you very much Len, that was very effective, I'll try to correct those mistakes in my next posts. Please do that again while you get free time.

Robert,
Are you there? may be you are depressed of me?! Ok I modify my post,
Canad is an expensive country with a lot of foreign Docters and nurses who are working in corner stores (just kidding)

 

[BeeBop]

OK, epilot,
if you concur, then we shall continue. (Just kidding! I'm still very busy, and a lot less productive than I would like to be.)
You are doing so very well, as you can see by the compliments you're getting. You are also dealing with more complex constructions, and questioning how to resolve them. For example:

Yes, 500000 words is (or are?) too much

Again, this is the verb 'to be,' which is, perhaps, the most difficult one. Is, or are refers to the noun 'words,' which is plural, so the correct choice is ______. (10 marks)
Now, the word that is throwing you off here is 'much,' which is used for nouns which are 'uncountable.' (examples: bread, water, ice cream, soldering flux...) The choice for items which you can count (words, candies, resistors, transistors...) is many.
Now, for the example you asked about, the simple way to say it is: Yes, 500000 words are too many. However, you could also say:
Yes, 500000 words, that is too much. (THAT, in this case refers to THE quantity, which is implied by '500000 words.' Here there is one quantity.)
This is something which is ingrained in people who grow up using English; they learn by repeated listening and using. It tends to be difficult for people who are learning English as another language. (L2s, if you want the jargon.)
The word which gives most L1s (People who learned English as a first language.) a difficult time, is too. All too often, I see - even educated - writers using to, which is not correct. I have even encountered people teaching English, who use the wrong form of they're/there/their, or its/it's and, common on this board, then/than.
First language speakers take so much for granted. When I was in undergraduate, I took courses in English, out of interest. In one course, we were given an assignment on grammar. I spent the whole weekend in the library, trying to find the correct answers. I could not, and on Monday, felt like such a failure, I had to drag my self into the class. I was immediately put at ease because NO ONE in that class could correctly answer the questions. Our professor, an Oxford Man, laughed when we asked him where we could find the information; he told us that it could be found in our elementary school texts. (grades 1 - 6) He gave us the assignment as a bit of a practical joke.
I also know, that in language, there is a rather large disparity in class room learning vs. real world learning. As an example, last night my girlfriend said "I don't know why nobody understands me when I go to the service station, and say 'fill it up.' (Now, some inside: Koreans have a vowel which looks like i, but the sound is like a long e, and they tend to pronounce i this way.) I told her she should use 'fill 'er up,' instead, explaining that we usually refer to our cars as 'her.' I repeated what she said, which sounded like 'feel eet up.' and jokingly reached toward her chest. She got the joke, and we had a good laugh.
As for the employment in Canada, well my girlfriend got the scores she needed on her English test, so now can apply to the Nurses Union, to test to become a nurse here. I think she will have so much better chance at employment than I would. Why? Because she is Korean, and from all I've seen, the Korean community will help her, much the same way the Chinese community helps Chinese new comers, the Vietnamese community helps the Vietnamese new comers, the Polish community helps the Polish new comers.... but the white people here, only help their friends and families. I'll probably have to go back to Asia to have gainful employment, since I don't know anybody here anymore.
Besides, I like children, and the children in Asia are a hundred times more friendly than in North America (or Europe.) We have this view that danger comes from outside the family, so we make our children unfriendly. Koreans, Taiwanese, and Thais all make their children friendly. This carries through to adulthood. It was easy to meet and talk with people in Korea, much easier than here!
Yes, English is funny. I think one of the reasons it is used in so many places, is its flexibility, and willingness to adapt.
OK, I have babbled enough, time to get down to some work.
Regards

P.S. Shaw keeps bragging about how fast its cable service is, but I find it so incredibly slow! I've not seen it go above 54 Mbits/sec, where I was used to over 100. grrrr

 

[ljcox]

Here is something daughter found.

Why I Failed English.

We'll begin with a box, and the plural is boxes; but the plural of ox is oxen not oxes.

One type of fowl is a goose, but two are called geese, yet the plural of moose is not meese.

You may find a lone mouse or a nest full of mice; yet the plural of house is houses, not hice.

If the plural of man is men, why shouldn't the plural of pan be pen?

If I spoke of my foot and show you my feet, but the plural of boot, is not beet.

If one is a tooth and two or more are teeth, why shouldn't the plural of booth be called beeth?

Then one may be that, and two or more would be those, yet hat in the plural is not hose, and the plural of cat is cats, not cose.

We speak of a brother and also of brethren, but though we say mother, we don't say methren.

Some other reasons to be grateful if you grew up speaking English:

Strange pronunciations can confuse! For example...

If you have a rough cough, climbing an be tough when going through the bough of a tree!

Let's face it - English is a strange language. There is no egg in eggplant nor ham in a hamburger; neither apple nor pine in pineapple. English muffins weren't invented in England.

We take English for granted. But if we explore its paradoxes, we find that quicksand can work slowly, boxing rings are square and a guinea pig is neither from Guinea nor is it a pig.

And why is it that writers write but fingers don't fing, grocers don't groce and hammers don't ham?

Doesn't it seem odd that you can make amends but not one amend?

If you have a collection of odds and ends and get rid of all but one of them, what do you call it?

If teachers taught, why don't preachers praught?

If a vegetarian eats vegetables, what does a humanitarian eat?

Sometimes I think that all of the people who grew up speaking English should be committed to an asylum for the verbally insane.

In what other language do people recite at a play and play at a recital?

Ship by truck and send cargo by ship?

We have noses that run and feet that smell?

How can a slim chance and a fat chance be the same, while a wise man and a wise guy are opposites?

You have to marvel at the unique lunacy of a language in which your house can burn up as it burns down, in which you fill in a form by filling it out and in which an alarm goes off by going on.

 

[Stronghold_2]

I was creating a new language at home with my father's help. Nevertheless, I cannot think of a suitable name to give it. Any suggestions? Please reply.

 

[Hero999]

"Dove" is used in Canada and parts of the USA rather that "dived" since "dived" is considered to be clumsy.

I agree, dove sounds better than dived in my opnion.

There are also variations with spelling, there's spelt and spelled, maximize and minimise, color and colour etc. Some are differences between the US, UK and Australia, others are acceptable anywhere.

 

[epilot]

OK, epilot,
if you concur, then we shall continue. (Just kidding! I'm still very busy, and a lot less productive than I would like to be.)
You are doing so very well, as you can see by the compliments you're getting. You are also dealing with more complex constructions, and questioning how to resolve them. For example:

Again, this is the verb 'to be,' which is, perhaps, the most difficult one. Is, or are refers to the noun 'words,' which is plural, so the correct choice is ______. (10 marks)
Now, the word that is throwing you off here is 'much,' which is used for nouns which are 'uncountable.' (examples: bread, water, ice cream, soldering flux...) The choice for items which you can count (words, candies, resistors, transistors...) is many.
Now, for the example you asked about, the simple way to say it is: Yes, 500000 words are too many. However, you could also say:
Yes, 500000 words, that is too much. (THAT, in this case refers to THE quantity, which is implied by '500000 words.' Here there is one quantity.)
This is something which is ingrained in people who grow up using English; they learn by repeated listening and using. It tends to be difficult for people who are learning English as another language. (L2s, if you want the jargon.)
The word which gives most L1s (People who learned English as a first language.) a difficult time, is too. All too often, I see - even educated - writers using to, which is not correct. I have even encountered people teaching English, who use the wrong form of they're/there/their, or its/it's and, common on this board, then/than.
First language speakers take so much for granted. When I was in undergraduate, I took courses in English, out of interest. In one course, we were given an assignment on grammar. I spent the whole weekend in the library, trying to find the correct answers. I could not, and on Monday, felt like such a failure, I had to drag my self into the class. I was immediately put at ease because NO ONE in that class could correctly answer the questions. Our professor, an Oxford Man, laughed when we asked him where we could find the information; he told us that it could be found in our elementary school texts. (grades 1 - 6) He gave us the assignment as a bit of a practical joke.
I also know, that in language, there is a rather large disparity in class room learning vs. real world learning. As an example, last night my girlfriend said "I don't know why nobody understands me when I go to the service station, and say 'fill it up.' (Now, some inside: Koreans have a vowel which looks like i, but the sound is like a long e, and they tend to pronounce i this way.) I told her she should use 'fill 'er up,' instead, explaining that we usually refer to our cars as 'her.' I repeated what she said, which sounded like 'feel eet up.' and jokingly reached toward her chest. She got the joke, and we had a good laugh.
As for the employment in Canada, well my girlfriend got the scores she needed on her English test, so now can apply to the Nurses Union, to test to become a nurse here. I think she will have so much better chance at employment than I would. Why? Because she is Korean, and from all I've seen, the Korean community will help her, much the same way the Chinese community helps Chinese new comers, the Vietnamese community helps the Vietnamese new comers, the Polish community helps the Polish new comers.... but the white people here, only help their friends and families. I'll probably have to go back to Asia to have gainful employment, since I don't know anybody here anymore.
Besides, I like children, and the children in Asia are a hundred times more friendly than in North America (or Europe.) We have this view that danger comes from outside the family, so we make our children unfriendly. Koreans, Taiwanese, and Thais all make their children friendly. This carries through to adulthood. It was easy to meet and talk with people in Korea, much easier than here!
Yes, English is funny. I think one of the reasons it is used in so many places, is its flexibility, and willingness to adapt.
OK, I have babbled enough, time to get down to some work.
Regards

P.S. Shaw keeps bragging about how fast its cable service is, but I find it so incredibly slow! I've not seen it go above 54 Mbits/sec, where I was used to over 100. grrrr

Hi Robert and other guys,

well, as you can see I preferred to let you to pay attention to your busies, while I had to do so.
Hope you could get more time soon.

Many thanks for all persuasions.

Yeah, I have found my mistake about 'Yes, 500000 words is (or are?) too much', 'are' is the correct choice. My mistake was due to my mental misunderstand. We do'nt use plural words with numbers in our native language, but use singular words with numbers and I'have forgotten how to use those sentences, thanks for reminding.

Yes you are just right about 'much' and 'many'. but are you sure that 'bread' is a uncountable word?

Yes, native speakers are just like a recorder I think, and they express everything they've been learnt with the original dialect and accent. that is almost correct for foreigners who live in an English country for a while, (that is one reason of why I said living in an English speaking country is so useful).

Robert, why are you using 'white' word when you are talking about Canadians?


Recently I have seen a movie called 'a jewel in the castle' which is a Korean movie, it was so interesting and sensational to me. I never seen such exciting movie in western movies. I'll back to korea if I was you with your busies in Canada.

 

[epilot]

Here is something daughter found.

Why I Failed English.

We'll begin with a box, and the plural is boxes; but the plural of ox is oxen not oxes.

One type of fowl is a goose, but two are called geese, yet the plural of moose is not meese.

You may find a lone mouse or a nest full of mice; yet the plural of house is houses, not hice.

If the plural of man is men, why shouldn't the plural of pan be pen?

If I spoke of my foot and show you my feet, but the plural of boot, is not beet.

If one is a tooth and two or more are teeth, why shouldn't the plural of booth be called beeth?

Then one may be that, and two or more would be those, yet hat in the plural is not hose, and the plural of cat is cats, not cose.

We speak of a brother and also of brethren, but though we say mother, we don't say methren.

Some other reasons to be grateful if you grew up speaking English:

Strange pronunciations can confuse! For example...

If you have a rough cough, climbing an be tough when going through the bough of a tree!

Let's face it - English is a strange language. There is no egg in eggplant nor ham in a hamburger; neither apple nor pine in pineapple. English muffins weren't invented in England.

We take English for granted. But if we explore its paradoxes, we find that quicksand can work slowly, boxing rings are square and a guinea pig is neither from Guinea nor is it a pig.

And why is it that writers write but fingers don't fing, grocers don't groce and hammers don't ham?

Doesn't it seem odd that you can make amends but not one amend?

If you have a collection of odds and ends and get rid of all but one of them, what do you call it?

If teachers taught, why don't preachers praught?

If a vegetarian eats vegetables, what does a humanitarian eat?

Sometimes I think that all of the people who grew up speaking English should be committed to an asylum for the verbally insane.

In what other language do people recite at a play and play at a recital?

Ship by truck and send cargo by ship?

We have noses that run and feet that smell?

How can a slim chance and a fat chance be the same, while a wise man and a wise guy are opposites?

You have to marvel at the unique lunacy of a language in which your house can burn up as it burns down, in which you fill in a form by filling it out and in which an alarm goes off by going on.

Len,
Thanks a lot to you and your daughter.


I must confess that I never thought about those words and paradoxes in English!

Your daughter is the lord of encouragement for an English learner, specially for a beginner

I am happy because I have a great dictionary, if not, I had to go to the asylum instead of a native English speaker

 

[epilot]

Well, as I mentioned previously; I'd like to talk about stresses and accents in English language.

In high school we had several sections in the English books which we were studied called 'pronunciation'. we had some of words in this section and we had to memorize the place of the stresses on those words, for instance we must know that Ja'pan has its stress on the last syllable or 'happy has its stress on the first syllable.
I know that stress means loudness, but I never understood how to discover the stess on a word (is it done just by learning or it has a rule?)
By the way and I know it is so hard while we are just writing but what kind of loudness it refers to?

Many thanks.

P.s which one is correct?:
1: What is the price IN dollarS?
2: What is the price ON dollars?
3: what are the prices in dollars?
4: or...
Yea Robert, I know the 'to be' verb and its derivatives
My guess is number 4.

 

[Sceadwian]

Using an online dictionary will show you the proper way or pronouncing each sylable in a word. There are various notations for which letters sound stressed and how they're sounded. Usually there's a pronounciation key that contains simple words as refrence

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Using an online dictionary will show you the proper way or pronouncing each sylable in a word. There are various notations for which letters sound stressed and how they're sounded. Usually there's a pronounciation key that contains simple words as refrence

But make sure you get an 'English' one and not an 'American' one, or you will be spelling and pronouncing incorrectly!