Is There an Engineering Type: what is your experience?

[atferrari]

You know how you form images of people in your mind- well I would love to meet the active ETO members sometime, just to see what they are really like. I have seen pictures of some members and they look quite different to what I imagined and I bet their characters are quite different too.

Is it you on the left of the Top Sandisk man?

 

[spec]

Is it you on the left of the Top Sandisk man?

Is that left of him or left as viewed? Either way, nah- far too good looking to be me (wouldn't mind their money though!)

2008:

 

[strantor]

the technical supervisor ignored my 'invention' but later suggested it in a bulletin. ( if I had been a bit more savy I should have documented it and sent it to the factory..

Been there, done that. I came up with a concept to mount one of our machines on a modular track that would be scalable/deployable in any shape/size needed, on a per-job basis. Presented it to my boss and his boss, then the president of the company. The president literally said that he "HATED IT." He told me "Stick to your electrical drawings. When I want something designed, I'll task that to my design group in Norway." - Ironic, since I am part of the design group, just not in Norway; I don't know if he even knows that.

Well that was the end of my fervor for having good profitable ideas for this company. I went and found a new job, then went to put in my resignation to my boss. He did not accept my resignation and instead gave me a 50% pay raise. That's the only reason I'm still here. But I wish that I had quit, so that I wouldn't have ever known what happened after that scathing review of my concept. A couple months ago, fancy photorealistic 3D renderings of MY CONCEPT are being passed around, all hail the Norwegian design team.

I had an episode of rage; I went out the workshop and "modified" my toolbox to contain a few drawers less, with no tools but my boot. After I was done giving my toolbox a good thrashing I had a cigarette, picked up my mess, and went about my day. I can be explosive but my episodes are short lived, thank goodness. Unlike my wife who, once scorned, will remain a glowing pile of smoking embers for days to come, requiring only a puff of fresh air to reignite and burn your face off.

 

[strantor]

You know how you form images of people in your mind- well I would love to meet the active ETO members sometime, just to find out what they are really like. I have seen pictures of some members and they look quite different to what I imagined. and I bet their characters are quite different too.

I'm not scheduled to visit the UK anytime in the next decade, so pictures will have to suffice:

2007, somewhere in the Atlantic, On deployment in the bridge of the submarine I served aboard:


2009, Singapore, my first job after the navy, commissioning controls on oil rigs in shipyards:


2015, home (TX), somehow successfully procreated multiple times:

 

[JimB]

For those who have not seen the original post:
https://www.electro-tech-online.com/threads/who-is-that-handsome-young-man.144150/
the image in my avatar is me in 1986.

JimB

 

[cowboybob]

So, you were a bubblehead strantor (is that SSN 723)? What was your rate/rank at discharge (I was an ETR1 with a 1598 job code - PMES. Served on 2 SSN Sub Tenders)?

From Wikipedia:
An engineer is a practitioner of engineering, concerned with applying scientific knowledge, mathematics, and ingenuity to develop solutions for technical, societal and commercial problems. Engineers design materials, structures, and systems while considering the limitations imposed by practicality, regulation, safety, and cost.[1][2] The word engineer is derived from the Latin words ingeniare ("to contrive, devise") and ingenium ("cleverness").

With that definition in mind, I've sort of shied away from this thread because I've never really thought of myself as an "Engineer". Rather more of a Technician with an engineering bent.

But, perhaps due to the definitions thus far offered, I guess the term engineer is apt after all. I must say, however, I prefer the term "Motorhead" .

Also, I would like to add to the list of traits: "Thinks in 4D". (Useful in engineering; not so much in social situations )

My avator is me in 1979 aboard the RV Dolphin, a converted US Army sea-going tug reconfigured for offshore (SE Atlantic coast) Marine Research.

2010 w/ my Dad (93yo):

Late 2015:

 

[DerStrom8]

Hi,

Left handed? How did that get in there?
Body parts are often mistaken as indicators of other individuals properties.

I agree. The majority of engineers I have met are right-handed, and there was that whole thing about left-brained being more logical thinkers and right-brained being more artistic and creative thinkers. Also that the left side of the brain controlled the right side, and the right-side of the brain controlled the left side. I think that was proven false, anyway.

I don't think right- or left-handedness has anything to do with being better with engineering. Especially considering the balance is so offset in the general population anyway - 90% right-handed to 10% left-handed, it hardly seems reasonable to try to attribute either side to a particular set of interests.

 

[strantor]

So, you were a bubblehead strantor (is that SSN 723)? What was your rate/rank at discharge (I was an ETR1 with a 1598 job code - PMES. Served on 2 SSN Sub Tenders)?

Yes sir, I served aboard the USS Oklahoma City SSN 723. I was a FT (for everyone else: that's Fire control Technician - it's got nothing to do with controlling fires; it's the guys who control the firing of missiles/torpedoes).
I was FT3 when I got out (E4)
Would have been an E5 or E6 except I got in trouble a few times.
But as you know, in the submarine force competency is regarded over rank in most cases, and my meager E4 rank did not preclude me filling the middle management shoes of an E6.
I was made Work Center Supervisor and then subsequently masted (punitively demoted) for harboring a fugitive pigeon in my footlocker to E3 and still had E4s and E5s reporting to me.

I've sort of shied away from this thread because I've never really thought of myself as an "Engineer". Rather more of a Technician with an engineering bent.

The key term in this thread is "Engineering type" so as not to exclude anyone who engineers without the title.
I have looked up the requirements to legally call oneself an Engineer. I had to...
When I took the job I have now, they wanted me to design control systems for them as I had already (as a self employed contractor) shown a keen aptitude in reengineering the failed control systems they had paid contract engineers to design. But the offer letter said "Technician."

I told them that if they expected me to fill the role of an Engineer, I wanted the title. The manager (my boss now) was convinced that you can't put the title Engineer on someone who doesn't have a degree. I had to break out "the book" and show him otherwise.

Here in TX, the law states (paraphrased) that if your job entails offering engineering services to the public or leading the public to believe that your service includes "the work of Engineering", (I.E. "HI, I'm John, [Electrical Engineer - or - Electrical Technician]. What potentially hazardous-to-the-public system can I design for you today?") then you must be a licensed Professional Engineer. In order to get the license you must have an Engineering degree. HOWEVER, If you are "doing the work of Engineering" in-house, designing products to be sold (thereby not offering the service of Engineering to the public, but rather a product), then within your company, your title may be Engineer. You may use it on your business cards and email signatures and such. But you may under no circumstance put any stamp on any document which resembles a PE stamp, or introduce yourself to clients in a manner that suggests that your Engineering services are for hire.

So technically, back when I was self employed and doing contract work for this company using the title "Consultant," but actually reengineering things, I was breaking the law (had no idea at the time). But as soon as I was hired on and I took the title Engineer (without a degree) I wasn't anymore. Although I could argue that back before I was hired I was engaged in a lengthy bout of troubleshooting and replacing components one at a time, with corresponding minor incremental programming changes.

 

[JoeJester]

As a consultant, you offered changes to a failed design. You re-engineered it to fulfill the clients wishes.

You did not report yourself as a professional engineer PE.

 

[strantor]

As a consultant, you offered changes to a failed design. You re-engineered it to fulfill the clients wishes.

You did not report yourself as a professional engineer PE.

I feel like I'm splitting hairs here, and not even in my own favor (!), but from what I read, I interpreted that I had been in the wrong. Rather, I expected that had I gone to court over it, the court would have found me in the wrong.

Here's what the law says, if you're interested. Pay close attention to:

• 1001.002. Definitions (2): “Engineer”
  
• 1001.003. Practice of Engineering
  
• 1001.004. Legislative Purpose and Intent; (c)
  
• 1001.051. Limitation on Exemption
  
• 1001.057. Employee of Private Corporation or Business Entity
  
• 1001.301. License Required
  
• 1001.302. License Eligibility Requirements

Interestingly, by my interpretation of it, not even a degreed Engineer can Introduce himself as an engineer for hire, unless he/she holds a current PE cert.

 

[MrAl]

I agree. The majority of engineers I have met are right-handed, and there was that whole thing about left-brained being more logical thinkers and right-brained being more artistic and creative thinkers. Also that the left side of the brain controlled the right side, and the right-side of the brain controlled the left side. I think that was proven false, anyway.

I don't think right- or left-handedness has anything to do with being better with engineering. Especially considering the balance is so offset in the general population anyway - 90% right-handed to 10% left-handed, it hardly seems reasonable to try to attribute either side to a particular set of interests.

Hi there,

Yeah that struck me as a little strange too and also the extreme statistical disproportion between right and left hander's, so i thought i would query 'spec' to see if he had a good reason for suggesting that might be an included trait. I would have liked to hear his reasoning behind that.

 

[Mikebits]

I joined the Navy when I turned 17, and became a Navy electronics tech (ETR2) where I served aboard 2 ships USNS Chauvenet (Oceanographic research vessel), and the USS New Orleans LPH-11 (Landing Pad Helicopter). My C school rating was 4113 meteorlogical equipment (weather radar, GOES satellite tracking and recording station, auto weather station etc...
Here is me around 83.

In 2011, I wanted to try something different and at age 50 I went to the fire academy where afterword I got a job as a Industrial FF. I did that until last year where I developed small tumors on my pancreas (which are extremely painful), and could no longer do the job, so I am back to electronics. I should add, when I left electronics, I felt very burned out and started hating my job, this time around I have a new spark and am feeling passionate about it again, once again it is fun which I lost at one point. Schedules and deadlines of engineering at my last job put out my fire, but I'm back baby

Me at my last job. I was also an EMT/FF . My avatar is me at rope rescue training, boy that was a blast I miss putting on my ff uniform...
And yes, I am a little guy

 

[spec]

I'm not scheduled to visit the UK anytime in the next decade, so pictures will have to suffice:

2007, somewhere in the Atlantic, On deployment in the bridge of the submarine I served aboard:
View attachment 97503

2009, Singapore, my first job after the navy, commissioning controls on oil rigs in shipyards:
View attachment 97504

2015, home (TX), somehow successfully procreated multiple times:
View attachment 97505

What a nice family you have strantor- you are a lucky man. Surrounded by four women- I bet you don't get in the bathroom much

I lived at RAF Seletar in Singapore, from 1952 to 1955 (father in Royal Air Force).

 

[throbscottle]

Haven't time to read the thread, just add:
Someone told me engineers hate paperwork. I'm inclined to agree, it's a PITA and I'm not good at it (maybe because I'm dyslexic). I should know I attempted to work in admin for years!

 

[spec]

Some fascinating posts here. I'm thinking about:
(1) What is the definition of engineer, generally and particularly with regard to ETO
(2) Is there a left and right brain
(3) Significance of left/right handed, if any

UPDATE 2016_02_18
I have put a note in the opening post #1 to this thread explaining that 'engineer' in this context has a very wide scope, and encompass anybody involved in an engineering field

 

[JimB]

I lived at RAF Seletar in Singapore

My first real job was with Marconi Instruments, they had a service department which was also a "holding unit" for the RAF.
If the RAF base had a broken or out of cal piece of (MI made) equipment, they could just exchange it for a working one at MI.

The returned equipment came from places that I had never heard of, like Masirah, Episkopi, Dekehlia, Seletar, etc.

When I left, I kept with me a handbook for an OA1049 Spectrum Analyser, something which I specialised in repairing while I was there.
The handbook had been returned with an SA, but could not be sent out again because it had been annotated by someone out in the field.

Fast forward 30years or so, I needed a design for a filter for something which I was making and I knew that the OA1094 has a filter that would probably do the job, time to dig out the old souvenir.
Thumbing through the handbook I came across one of the options in the SA which was annotated "Not used here at Jurong" Wow! not only do I know where it is, I have actually been there!
(For those who do not know, Jurong is an area in Singapore)
Never would that fresh faced electronics technician in 1970 have imagined that he would actually visit any of these far way places whose names were written on the return labels on broken down test equipment. Or at least not doing that job he wouldn't!

JimB

 

[spec]

Haven't time to read the thread, just add:
Someone told me engineers hate paperwork. I'm inclined to agree, it's a PITA and I'm not good at it (maybe because I'm dyslexic). I should know I attempted to work in admin for years!

Hi throb,

PITA: had to look that one up

Yes, the dreaded paperwork. To misquote Thomas Edison: Engineering is one percent inspiration and ninety nine percent perspiration. I have been an RAF RADAR Technician, Test Engineer, Quality Engineer, Design Engineer, Department Head. Of all those jobs, Design Engineer had the most perspiration, much of it paperwork: proposals, design reports, development reports, cost estimates, safety reports, procurement specifications, test specifications, reliability reports... The list goes on and on. In fact, many engineers never touch any hardware/software if they move into a specialist area, like reliability, or safety, for example. On top of the documentation, there are the endless meetings, both internal and with the customer. Of course, meetings need agendas and then minutes. Then there are staff assessments and interviews. The list goes on and on.

I had a fantastic four years, though, as a 'consultant' in a one-man-band company. Apart from dealing with the Inland Revenue and submitting monthly invoices, there was very little BS activities, but the design related documentation was still there. As a kid, I had wanted to be a Research Chemist and imagined an environment of test tubes, retorts and chemicals, but I found out that a job in that field often involved endless recording and calculating, so I dropped that idea.

I was in Bristol today, looking at curved screen OLED 4K TVs (out of this word picture quality), and got chatting to a couple who were buying one. The wife asked me what I did and when I told her, she gave the usual response: Wow! bet that is interesting. I replied, one percent of the time.

That's the nice thing about ETO, apart from some of the flack: it's mostly design oriented

 

[spec]

My first real job was with Marconi Instruments, they had a service department which was also a "holding unit" for the RAF.
If the RAF base had a broken or out of cal piece of (MI made) equipment, they could just exchange it for a working one at MI.

The returned equipment came from places that I had never heard of, like Masirah, Episkopi, Dekehlia, Seletar, etc.

When I left, I kept with me a handbook for an OA1049 Spectrum Analyser, something which I specialised in repairing while I was there.
The handbook had been returned with an SA, but could not be sent out again because it had been annotated by someone out in the field.

Fast forward 30years or so, I needed a design for a filter for something which I was making and I knew that the OA1094 has a filter that would probably do the job, time to dig out the old souvenir.
Thumbing through the handbook I came across one of the options in the SA which was annotated "Not used here at Jurong" Wow! not only do I know where it is, I have actually been there!
(For those who do not know, Jurong is an area in Singapore)
Never would that fresh faced electronics technician in 1970 have imagined that he would actually visit any of these far way places whose names were written on the return labels on broken down test equipment. Or at least not doing that job he wouldn't!

JimB

Was that Marconi in Chelmsford? We used their huge Astrid Air traffic Control (ATC) displays on a couple of RADARs.
As a hobby, I investigated scopes and built a couple- sort of. But similar to you, I got hold of a few scope manuals and it was surprising how often versions of some of the circuits came in handy for other applications. Incidentally, the ubiquitous 555 timer has the same architecture as many scope time bases.

 

[JimB]

Was that Marconi in Chelmsford?

No, Marconi Instruments.
Their base was in St Albans, but I was at the service dept in Luton.
There were two service departments, the one in Luton up by the airport which dealt with stuff for the military, and one in St Albans which dealt with civilian stuff. Basically all the same equipment, just different end users.

JimB

 

[Mikebits]

Looks like quite a few ex-military here. Thanks for your service guys