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LED Actuated Relay

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OK, my turn. What we have here is a total lack of understanding what the terms on the datashhet means. A language barrier/ Let's get past it.

Under electro-optical characteristics we see some Vf values (1.2 to 1.4 V) and a current of 20 mA

This tells us that the LED would LIKE to operated around 20 mA and it will drop 1.2 to 1.4 Volts.
So, if the LED is working, you would measure 1.2 to 1.4 V ACROSS the LED.

So, to light a LED we need to know how our input voltage might vary and make sure the design fits within the ranges and doesn't go above the ABSOLUTE maximums. These let out the magic smoke.

Parallel batteries ARE not a good idea. Maybe we can work on that,

Those specs mean you have to have a supply voltage greater than 1.2V for anything to happen, it could be 3, 4.5, 12 or even 100V. At the low values of V, you get larger variations.

So if we have a 6V source and want 20 mA and our led drops a max of 1.4 V, we can select a resisistor by R=(6V-1.4)/0.020 (I might write that as 20 mA expecting you to use it in AMPS.
Equations like (5-1.4)/20mA might get evaluated wrong by a newby because the units have to be amps. Also watch K ohms/mA for 1K/1mA is the same as 1000/0.001.

So now, our batteries die and go to 4V min. We can check the battery datasheet to figure out what the lifetime and typical numbers are.

If we want to accept a little more voltage drop with better current regulation, we can make a current source.

A wise engineer recomputes the numbers and finds the max power his resistor has to dissipate and adds a safety margin or maybe use what the company bought too many of.

==

So, we just activated a LED that we can't see.

And we that other number of Peak Forward voltage requires some digging. Peak means pulse. So, you have to look at the graphs. If this was a remote control there could be peak pulses of current bigger than the steady state current which won;t destroy the LED.

In your case the LED is pure DC. Always on and not pulsed.

==

The unseen LED. The quick test: What is the voltage across the LED? 6V, then it might be leakage currents. 1.2V - It's probably on. 0V The battery is disconnected or broke; 0.3V probably broken.

But we still can't see it. OK, get out the cell phone camera. The camera sees blue and I see nothing. Going insane? Nah. Just the responses of the camera and the human eye to light.
--

The light works!!

Now for the detector. The easiest way is to use a voltmeter with a diode test mode and maybe one that beeps too.

So, we hastily hook out=r probes up in diode mode. OK. What? Ah!, the transistor has a polarity. Still nothing, Oh, the lights not On.

So, using the diode/beep mode on your meter, if we turn on the led (nothing blocking) the meter beeps and shows a diode drop.

Now, what? Well, I turn on the invisible LED and put a meter on the output and stick something opaque to IF light in the hole.

Insert it, meter beeps. remove it. Meter doesn't beep,

That's all for the lesson for today. Almost! p-n junctions don't like ohmmeters Their job is to fool them. Charlie's meter will act differently than Sam;s etc. and so will the 50K ohm/Volt meter.

Edits: typos
 
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Just shooting off a few ideas...

Are you sure that you are connected to the LED end of the interupter?
Are you sure that the LED emits visible light and not infra red?
You have a 10k reseistor in series with the LED, that is far too high, there would be so little current that you would not see the LED illuminate.
Your batteries appear to be connected as two parallel series pairs, you will only have 3 volts to light the LED, not really enough. Connect the batteries all in series to give 6 volts.

So, use 6 volts and a 470 or 560 Ohm resistor and you will be in with a chance of it working.

JimB

hi

Why wouldn't the serial/parallel battery combo work?
3v should be enough for the 1.25v LED, just need to change resistor R1 to 91 ohms to provide 20mA current for the LED.
The S/P battery combo will provide more current capacity for the remaining circuitry.

eT
 
Why wouldn't the serial/parallel battery combo work?

It will work - EXCEPT - it's essential to use identical batteries, same make and model, all brand new, and preferably out of the same packet.

Don't ever mix different batteries, or old and new ones - any such combination will drastically reduce their life.
 
Why wouldn't the serial/parallel battery combo work?
3v should be enough for the 1.25v LED, just need to change resistor R1 to 91 ohms to provide 20mA current for the LED.

When you are in a "no idea what I am doing" situation*, keep things simple.
Yes 3v should be enough, but when you are experimenting, a highter voltage and higher resistance gives more "wiggle room" for unknowns.
As explained by KISS.

As already explained, series parallel batteries are a bad idea, especially for simple circuits like this.

* despite 50+ years of experience, both hobby and professional, I often find myself in "no idea what I am doing" situations, and the usual way out of the situation is to make things simple to aid understanding and then refine the circuit from there.

JimB
 
When you are in a "no idea what I am doing" situation*, keep things simple.
Yes 3v should be enough, but when you are experimenting, a highter voltage and higher resistance gives more "wiggle room" for unknowns.
As explained by KISS.

As already explained, series parallel batteries are a bad idea, especially for simple circuits like this.

* despite 50+ years of experience, both hobby and professional, I often find myself in "no idea what I am doing" situations, and the usual way out of the situation is to make things simple to aid understanding and then refine the circuit from there.

JimB

Hi

Understood. ;)

eT
 
PS:
The circuit doesn't work on Tuesdays because the circuit is debugged on the picnic table on that day in the back yard under the sun where there is plenty of extraneous UV.
 
Thanks Mozaic for the education on the emitter and collector. I’m still back in the days of mechanical relays.
 
I just found another page of conversations. Sorry, I'll eventually figure out how to navigate this site.

It will take me a little while to absorb all of this fabulous information that has just appeared.
 
KISS: Your explanations, although elementary to you, is a wealth of information to me. Great humor!

Can someone tell me how to register "likes" and any other way I can show my appreciation.
 
Icons in the bottom right corner of the post's window.

Ken
 
mark:

I guess I was felling good that day, My response was, in part, guided by the way you asked the question, your interpretation of the datasheets and the responses you got. I know I covered a lot of ground. Maybe I should clean it up and post it in the Blogs?
 
KISS; It was perfect! I understood perfectly and summarized it in my notes.
You may have covered a lot of ground but I could have easily sucked up 5 more pages of that kind of stuff.

Blogs; I prefer going to this one site to get my alerts, but if there is an advantage to blogs or you prefer it, then I'm all for it.

I'm staring to build the circuit from eTech as modified by alec_t. I'm sure I will have many questions.
If I have some success with the parallel 3 Volt, I would then like to go with a higher voltage, rechargeable, in the smallest possible package.
 
This site has "Articles" and "blogs" and that's what I meant. Maybe the article is a better idea. You have Forums, Articles, blogs, Chat and PM;s (Conversations) here.
 
Can anyone out there tell me the best way to contact someone who lives in Los Angeles, possibly near Santa Monica, who might be able to help me?
 
It's been a long time since I have posted anything, but I wanted to say thanks to everyone and particularly eTech whose circuit I ended up using with some modifications.

The attached file is a circuit that I am using to run a motor when the photo cell’s beam is interrupted.
The circuit is working nicely. but suggestions are always appreciated.

I need two additional features to be added to the attached circuit:
1. Motor speed control .
2. A red led light to turn on when the battery needs to be charged.
The red light shall turn on when the remaining power remaining power in the battery is enough to keep the motor running for approximately 30 minutes

FYI: I used a variable resistor to adjust the motor speed and found that I could reduce the speed from 11,000 RPM down to a few hundred RPM with a voltage of approximately .35 volts. The problem is that the resistor cannot be left at this setting because the motor requires 2.1 volts in order for it to re-start.

Hopefully, I might hear from some of you with some knowledge on accomplishing 1. and 2. above.
 

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What you could possibly do is use a modified vesion of the circuit shown here: **broken link removed** , but use the 7555 timer. The 7555 is guaranteed to operate to 3V, whereas the 555 is guaranteed to operate to 4.5 V.

The battery needing to be charged could be done with a micro power comparator and reference.
 
I agree with KISS. However, meeting requirement 2 fully is next to impossible, since the energy "enough to keep the motor running for approximately 30 minutes" will depend on the set speed (and hence average current draw) so is not known.
 
Yes KISS I will definitely try that circuit with a 7555. Thanks again for your great help

alec_t and KISS;
The 30 minute run time is not written in stone. Hopefully there would be some run time left in the battery after the the red light comes on.
I did some testing on the battery while running the motor and found that when the voltage went down to approx 3.4 volts the battery would suddenly drop to zero volts.
In view of this test, could a simple circuit be made to have the red light come on when the battery drops to 3.5 volts? If so, could you guys recommend a circuit that might
do the job? It would also be desirable if I could adjust in 1/4 volt increments to fine tune the point at which the light should come on and still be left with some run time.
I would appreciate your thoughts as well
 
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