Looking for a sheet that resists

Hero999 said:

This thread has gone totally retarded!

I'm going to give it one more chance.

The problem is, the original poster hasn't been specific enough.

Resistors can be bought in valuse ranging from 500µΩ to 500GΩ, a huge dynamic range - 10^15!

Without specifying a rough resistance range, your question is meaningless.

What do you mean by distance?

Are you referring to the material dimensions?

Resistance is measured in Ohms per meter, Ωm, which is the resistance of a 1m³ block of the material from end to end.

Without specifying the dimensions your question is meaningless.

jasonbe,
Please provide concise and unambiguous responses to the above questions or I shall give up.

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I object to your use of the word retarded - and thank you for offering your help. I am looking for a material having a resistance that can be measured with a common meter - which I thought would be able to measure the resistance of most if not all manufactured resistors - but might fall into a group of materials that were not manufactured specifically as resistors having resistances outside of this range. I would like for the material to resemble a sheet. I came across a linear formula for estimating resistance that included resistivity - but the formula involved dimensions that seemed to me to resemble a cylinder. A sheet might be defined as a cylinder - a thin cylindrical slice. I'd like to know if the formula might be applicable to such a sheet in addition to a wire representing a cylinder. My reason for wanting to know is that I would like to measure distances in the sheet according to resistance - and if resistance would vary linearly as a function of distance in the sheet. I would like to measure distances between one and half and two feet according to resistance in the sheet. If the relationship is not linear, then a change in distance of an electrical connections near the other elecrical connection on the sheet might be different from a same change in distance made further away from the other electrical connection. This might pose problems in terms of the sensitivity of the meter being able to measure resistances on different areas of the one and a half by one and a half - to two by two, foot sheet. One thing - that I may have interpreted incorrectly - that led me to think that the relationship is not linear, is a picture of what I thought was current diverging from an anode and converging at cathode in a sheet. I would like to know if there is such a representation of DC current in a sheet, if it represents a linear relationship or not, and why. Is this enough information?

tcmtech said:

I all ready covered the basic type of resistive sheet material and got no real positive response from it either.
This thread is just like the Q & A games little kids play. There may be some infinitesimal learning going on but its not actually much more that a game other wise.

I re read the thread in its entirety and I suggest everyone else do the same before posting a single response!

If you do I seriously doubt you will find any reason to post anything any way. All reasonable questions have been given reasonable answers that were promptly ignored or twisted by the OP.

This is a game and we are the suckers that keep falling for it one by one! The OP is winning this game because he can rewrite the rules and just ignore what he wants in order to get a new player.

WE are the sheet and he IS the resistance.

THIS whole thread IS the game! AND the OP has played us all as pawns very well!

THIS THREAD WILL NEVER END UNTIL THE ADMINISTRATION STEPS IN AND BOOTS IT.

ANYONE THAT RESPONDS IS JUST GETTING PLAYED AND HELPING THE OP KEEP THIS THREAD GAME RUNNING.

HE WINS, WE DONT, AND CANT!


Just my opinion.

I expect the OP to be the next poster unless you didn't re read the entire thread over.

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If you have any of my posts fresh in your mind after having reviewed this thread, please take notice of any of my later questions and specify where they have already been addressed earlier in the post. That you are arguing that my questions have been covered seems to contradict the arguments that I have read that they are not worth a response.

crashsite said:

I had come up with something similar when I suggested a triangular shaped board. I haven't worked out any details but, empirically it seems like there should be a definable point on the surface from analyzing the resistances (from voltage or currents) by triangulation.

By picking a point within the boundaries of a square or rectangular board to inject the voltage/current, you'd essentially be triangulating out to the cirners. The calculaltions would be a little more involved but, really not too much more.

But, the problem that's been stated (more than once) is that physical contact with the resistive material means wear, finger oils and dirt and a basically unreliable connection. It's just a bad idea all around...

...making it a perfect choice for a secondary game. You can guess the "rules" for that one. (he he)

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I'm not too much worried about wear and foreign substances - unless I found that they changed the amount of resistance offered by the sheet by changing its shape - or changed the amount of resistance by allowing a different path through the foreign substances. My biggest obstacle has been finding a sheet that offers a measurable range of resistance - with measuring equipment that is common. If anyone knows of ways of testing materials that involves resistance or indicators from which resistance can be calculated, I'd be interested. One thing might be a sheet that is chemically composed in such a way that - without being effected by electricity, the sheet is polarized. The sheet might be polarized in such a way that - when electricity is introduced into the sheet, the flow of electrons is slowed at particular parts of the sheet - in a measurable way, depending on the electron buildup already there. This might be what someone was referring to as nanotechnology. What would the amount of electricity involved - and measure of the amount that the material was an insulator, have to be to make this practical?

MrAl said:

Hi,

Gee this thread is a little funny at times

I just wanted to mention to Jasonbe that a pendulum swing is not a true
sine wave. It can be approximated as a sine wave, but that's it, just
an approximation, not a true sine. I think it was taught as a sine wave
for a while that's where the problem came in. The true solution to the
differential equation is nonlinear and is not sin(wt) or cos(wt).

If i was going to use a resistive sheet to sense position, i think i would first look
into a voltage injected into a point on the sheet surface and analyze the currents
through the four corners to ground, or something like that.
For different pieces, different frequencies could be used, maybe that are not
harmonically related.
The entire waveform could then be analyzed via software and the component
frequencies and their amplitudes picked out, which would determine where
the pieces were on the board.
That might be a starting point anyway.

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I am not sure what you mean by analyzing waves. I had thought that using an alternating current might not be practical because - while the current was changing because it is was a wave, the current would be uniform throughout a sheet that offered little resistance at any given time. That is, my understanding is that the wave nature of electricity varies more as a function of time than location - when thinking about it practically in this case.

I'm interested in learning what factors are involved in making AC representable by a sine wave function. I looked at something that someone provided a link to earlier that seemed to indicate that it had something to do with a changing magnetic field in relation to a wire in one dimension. In the link, either the wire or the magnetic field was rotating in such a way as to make the parts resemble a unit circle. However, I'm also curious if electron repulsion and anything else has much to do with making AC representable in this way - or more accurately represented in another way. Are there certain characteristics defining AC that when changed sufficiently or totally make a completely different function more representative?

crashsite said:

a) We all have tried to give serious, helpful responses.

b) Duh!



Of course, but it's not every day that you get a chance to evaluate something like this. I hope we are all getting an education by watching this guy's antics. Watch and learn, boys and girls...watch and learn.

Actually, he's really not very good at it. He doesn't know how enough to figure out how to mask the fact that it is a game. If he was smarter or more clever, it would at least be a little more entertaining than watching him clumsily thrash around like a bull in a china shop.

Kinda pathetic, really (Which, by the way, is a "win" for him. He craves having people tell him he's pathetic). But, that's the nature of analysis...sometimes it's inevitable that you'll give the jerks a few strokes while making an analysis. Oh, my gosh! I just called him a, "jerk". He's in psycho heaven now. (Normally, I don't like those little icons but, gosh, for this app I'll relent)

Anyway, I apologize for stripping out all your colors and sizing effects from your quotes.

I hope the admin lets this thread continue. Like I say, it's a good learning opportunity.

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a) About the sheet - would someone please indicate what about my model is absurd, because I think that my question may be being overlooked. Actually, maybe not - because I'm asking the question in yet a new way. I'm not sure if the conduction band corresponds to an orbital level evenly divisible by eight. However, even if not - with a sheet, I imagine that there are at least three types of ways that electricity can flow through the the sheet. One, perhaps - I may be wrong, if there is not sufficient energy to move most of travelling electrons associated with the current to the conduction band. Two, if there is just enough energy so that the bulk of the electrons moves through conduction bands. And third, if there is so much energy that electrons build up on top of the conduction band - perhaps in unstable levels above the conduction band. Is it known how much the electons associated with current move from molecule to molecule in a metal as distinguished from between orbitals in each molecule in the metal? How might this relate to the position of the molecules in the conductor? How much does the path of the current, the current in each path, the current nearer to a cathode in the same path - in each path, and the change in current between the anode and cathode relate and change in these three circumstances?

MrAl said:

Hi again,


Yes, that's just a starting point. It would be difficult to connect wires to all the
pieces anyway.

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Yes, your are right - it was! My biggest problem now is getting them weighed down. However, I would like to electronically communicate the game board to each piece without these wires - perhaps in a different model. Other issues invovle communicating status information to the pieces in addition to using the pieces to communicate location information. I do not see how this could be done using resistance. Unless I am thinking about it wrongly, it can not be done using AC either. Unless I start learning about all of the nuances of AC, however. The only option that I can think of within my means involves learning if there is some type of conductor in the form of a sheet that changes the flow of electrons as a function of places in the material and the amount of electrons that are presently at that location. This might be useful if the intervals at which signals were sent were changed. However, it does not address communication of the status information.

blueroomelectronics said:

How about a bedsheet that resists?

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A thermal blanket might have a resistance that - if not provided by the manufacturer, could be measured using a thermometer.

A New Ploy or Same Old Same Old?

jasonbe said:

I may be wrong. Which question did you answer?

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Here's another game variation to note. The, "you didn't answer any questions so, feel obligated to fully reiterate every answer you've already given so I may continue to get the attention I crave...while I continue to ignore and pooh-pooh and circumvent those answers".

Nothing new here, really. Just another rather pitiful little vector.

But, here's a little side note. Has anyone else noticed that, no matter how long a post has been, he quotes the full body of it? Now, to be fair, it's fairly common for people to do that (laziness?) but, given the overall character of the "game", I think it's more likely that it's an effort to add as much bulk to the thread as possible, adding to the nuisance factor.

I see he's back to the basics again. Don't tell me he's run out of disruptive tactics already!!! But, he's still being very careful not to allow himself to yield to Ohm's Law or the use of highly specialized equipment such as an ohmmeter.

You know it really is kind of a shame that I'm not currently taking a psyche class. This guy really is making writing a final thisis for such a class pretty simple and straightforward.

While I think it's pretty much pointless to respond directly to his manipulations, I think it would be a good learning experience for all of us to share our own thoughts and analyses about all this. Some of you may even be thinking that he's legit and on the up-and-up and doesn't deserve to have his motives questioned.

Enquiring minds want to know.

Hero999 said:

A three phase supply with one phase connected to each corner of the triangle?

In the middle there should be 0V, the phase and amplitude should vary at different points of the triangle.

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Would you explain that in a little more detail?

crashsite said:

Here's another game variation to note. The, "you didn't answer any questions so, feel obligated to fully reiterate every answer you've already given so I may continue to get the attention I crave...while I continue to ignore and pooh-pooh and circumvent those answers".

Nothing new here, really. Just another rather pitiful little vector.

But, here's a little side note. Has anyone else noticed that, no matter how long a post has been, he quotes the full body of it? Now, to be fair, it's fairly common for people to do that (laziness?) but, given the overall character of the "game", I think it's more likely that it's an effort to add as much bulk to the thread as possible, adding to the nuisance factor.

I see he's back to the basics again. Don't tell me he's run out of disruptive tactics already!!! But, he's still being very careful not to allow himself to yield to Ohm's Law or the use of highly specialized equipment such as an ohmmeter.

You know it really is kind of a shame that I'm not currently taking a psyche class. This guy really is making writing a final thisis for such a class pretty simple and straightforward.

While I think it's pretty much pointless to respond directly to his manipulations, I think it would be a good learning experience for all of us to share our own thoughts and analyses about all this. Some of you may even be thinking that he's legit and on the up-and-up and doesn't deserve to have his motives questioned.

Enquiring minds want to know.

Click to expand...

Your reply could be construed as using the argument - that my purpose in posting is to attract attention, to avoid the question. The question that I asked is for you to point out a reply that you made that was about electronics and not my understanding of electronics or about me.

My reason for quoting full posts is to assure that I do not compromise the content of original posts. I think that this is important to consider - though I welcome other views.

What you consider to be basic I do not - and do not consider to be inappropriate to post at this site.

Ohm's law is a function of resistance. I haven't been able to define the resistance variable in my situation - and I would like help doing this. I have learned how resistance flows through wires but I am unsure about sheets.

I'm looking for a material that I can use an ohmmeter with.

If you decide to take the psyche class, please feel free to post any ideas that you may have about what the statuses of each game piece should be to this thread.

Welcome to the Laff Factory...

jasonbe said:

. I haven't been able to define the resistance variable in my situation - and I would like help doing this. I have learned how resistance flows through wires but I am unsure about sheets.

I'm looking for a material that I can use an ohmmeter with.

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Ah, a bit of comic relief in this cold, drab world. Pray, explain to us what you learned about how resistance flows in wires. Trust me, we'd all be thrilled to know.

As far as ohmmeters are concerned, most of us have heard of them but, like the unicorn, it's such an exotic and rare beast that it would be a statistical fluke if any of us have actually seen one...much less used it. For you to learn to use an ohmmeter for measuring either resistance flow in wires or in sheets would be a waste of your valuable R&D time.

Oh, come on, guys...this thread lost its cred a long time ago....

Oh, come on, guys...this thread lost its cred a long time ago....

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Then why are you keeping it alive? Don't feed the trolls.

You have been warned.

Beats watching paint dry

Triode said:

Then why are you keeping it alive? Don't feed the trolls.

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Ah, you called him a, troll. He'll be basking in the glow of that for a couple of days. Probably not as satisfying as, pathetic loser but still pretty good.

Unless he manages to come up with something more original than going back into stale old reruns, I think I've gotten about as much education/entertainment from his antics as he's likely to provide.

We'll just have to see if he can ramp up to another level or if he's pretty much shot his wad here. I'm hopeful but, not optomistic that he'll come up with something new.

jasonbe said:

Would you explain that in a little more detail?

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Please answer the questions in my previous post; if you do so properly, then I'll provide more detail.

jasonbe said:

Your reply could be construed as using the argument - that my purpose in posting is to attract attention, to avoid the question. The question that I asked is for you to point out a reply that you made that was about electronics and not my understanding of electronics or about me.

My reason for quoting full posts is to assure that I do not compromise the content of original posts. I think that this is important to consider - though I welcome other views.

What you consider to be basic I do not - and do not consider to be inappropriate to post at this site.

Ohm's law is a function of resistance. I haven't been able to define the resistance variable in my situation - and I would like help doing this. I have learned how resistance flows through wires but I am unsure about sheets.

I'm looking for a material that I can use an ohmmeter with.

If you decide to take the psyche class, please feel free to post any ideas that you may have about what the statuses of each game piece should be to this thread.

Click to expand...

In this post I categorized three types of replies - though I misworded my thought. I meant that I liked the first type of reply - but based on the nature of the series of interactions in question prefer the second to the third.

crashsite said:

Ah, a bit of comic relief in this cold, drab world. Pray, explain to us what you learned about how resistance flows in wires. Trust me, we'd all be thrilled to know.

As far as ohmmeters are concerned, most of us have heard of them but, like the unicorn, it's such an exotic and rare beast that it would be a statistical fluke if any of us have actually seen one...much less used it. For you to learn to use an ohmmeter for measuring either resistance flow in wires or in sheets would be a waste of your valuable R&D time.

Oh, come on, guys...this thread lost its cred a long time ago....

Click to expand...

I really don't know much about any relationships between resistance and materials. I've been asking for visual models - which some people have provided useful links to, but none that depict this process. Someone earlier mentioned that it had something to do with the amount of energy needed to raise electrons to a conducting band. Maybe it has something to do with the protons holding electrons back when they try to move to another molecule in the wire. I'd like to know how many new electrons have to be introduced to a molecule before before electrons associated with that molecule are repulsed to another molecule. Is it just one? How much is the movement of electrons caused by repulsion from one molecule, and how much is it caused by attraction to the protons in another molecule? I imagine that this changes depending on how full the orbitals are.

I thought about a sheet having a gradient defined by how much energy was required to move electrons to conducting orbitals. I think that I incorrectly assumed that this sheet had to be polar. Another type of gradient could be defined by how the molecules in the material were spaced - if the amount that the protons in neighboring molecules attracted electrons and conducted current is comparable to the amount of repulsion described earlier. I think that these two gradients might effect the resistance of the material. However, as I've thought about it a little more, it becomes less clear to me how these gradients could be used to defined distance as a function of resistance - though I think that it may still be possible.

I'm still trying to figure out how a material with a uniform resistance might be useful. I know that there is the equation R = (pl)/A (Resistivity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). However, as far as I understand, this function would be useful for a thin cylindrical wire and not a large round flat cylindrical conducting sheet - like the type of sheet that I would be interested in using for a game board.

Using an ohmmeter might be a waste of my time because I don't know which types of sheets it would be sensitive to. Also, for my sample group, a graph representing the effects of resistance in a sheet between two point electrical contacts might closely resembled a graph that was made from the equation above - perhaps using about the width of the sheet instead of the diameter of a wire - but could still be described with a more accurate formula.

Has anyone ever seen a model guessing or representing - but still comparing, how uniformly in AC the electrons in a wire accelerate at faster currents and near zero current?

Anyone have any thoughts about the question of what types of molecular acceleration produced in a solid might be better at converting electricity into movement and not heat or light? Again, this might have to be movement of the entire molecule - not just the electrons. What else can it be converted to?

About the paths that electrons might take from one point electric contact to another on a sheet, has anyone seen a model of how these paths - describing direction and rate of electron movement, change as the contacts are made and then removed?