Need help with a dead remote

[CMServiceguy]

Hi all. New here and looking for help repairing a remote control.

It is for a product called Yacht Controller. It's basically a system people use to wirelessly dock their boat. The remote just stopped working, will not power on. these units are waterproof for a little while but I'm positive this unit did not get wet.

I know nothing about circuitry repairs (ask me to install a radar, autopilot or satellite TV system and I've got you covered). There isn't anything more I can offer about the remote since I can't power it on and test the other functions. It was working fine before it just stopped but that is all I know.

Not looking for a free repair. Your time is valuable and I understand things cost money. I'm looking for help as I gave my customer my stock/test remote and would like to repair this for a replacement.

Thank you,
Rich

 

[Tony Stewart]

To debug something like this, which is unlikely without fine skills in observation for damaged parts and solder joints and proper tools like a 1mm soldering tip and magnifying glasses. (loops). If any damage occurred after opening, we need to know. Also damage is likely not to be visible.

As far as PIC is concerned, it could also be the ZILOG One-time programmable Z8 , which uses the same crystal pins.

What Pommie defined as ground is only half-right. The twin crystal (or XTAL) tuning caps to Vcc and Vss is a possible design trick for improving power-up conditions and start oscillating faster towards a V/2 bias point. Or I could be wrong . Sanding off part numbers has been done for over 50 yrs in my experience.

Identify all the suspect zone on a better photo
Don't be afraid to ground yourself with one hand and use a finger with gentle pressure while transmitting to check for activity. I am assuming you have another way to detect if it is transmitting like an AM radio on a quiet band on full volume.

This is not damage.

But it may be connected or not. This is a common solder-problem called "tombstoning" where the partsstands up on end like a tombstone. But this capacitor contact is larger than the pad so it is only partially tilted as it is mounted in the thin side. So it may be connected.

 

[Tony Stewart]

The board with the helical coil is your Tx (transmitter) which you might be able to hear if you have a UHF tuner radio Transmitter AM 433,92MHz

https://cdn.sos.sk/productdata/9f/a9/56d9ffe8/tx-4m10ha.pdf

My guess is you will have to get a replacement Remote Control Unit from the supplier. Since we know nothing about your make and model, that's up to you. Or if they are defunct, ask others like https://www.yachtcontroller.com/dual-band/

 

[CMServiceguy]

I'm quite horrified at you randomly sticking a test lamp on it - you could easy kill something doing that - test lamps (where applicable) are for testing crude electrical things, not electronic ones. If you want to test things, use a multimeter.

Since it's already broken, I figured what's the loss. And since the already identified broken parts are too small for me to actually repair i figured what's the loss. But, your point did go through my mind.

As far as PIC is concerned, it could also be the ZILOG One-time programmable Z8 , which uses the same crystal pins.

Pretty sure it isn't as the pins 15,16,18,21-28 are all inputs from the touchpad buttons. Pins 19 and 20 are VSS and VDD respectively.

 

[CMServiceguy]

The board with the helical coil is your Tx (transmitter) which you might be able to hear if you have a UHF tuner radio Transmitter AM 433,92MHz

No. I am learning very quickly from all of you that I am in no way capable of repairing this myself but I do appreciate all the help. I think, if you guys keep doing the research, I'll be able to build one shortly as you are all finding the parts lol.

 

[CMServiceguy]

Let me ask a sort of silly question; what would be the odds of finding a complete remote that could pair with the transmitter rather than repair one?

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Let me ask a sort of silly question; what would be the odds of finding a complete remote that could pair with the transmitter rather than repair one?

As long as it's an identical remote there should be a way of pairing them together, a common method is a row of DIL switches, or a row of PCB pads you solder across.

Failing that, they may be a way of doing it from the keyboard and display? - but it might not be in the customer instructions.

From a personal point of view, because I'm using the GPRS/Mobile network, I do the pairing on a webserver, which both transmitter and receiver access - but it's not for aremote control (as such).

 

[CMServiceguy]

When I pair a remote to a system, there are dipswitches on the receiver that i set, perform a button push on the remote, wait for a response from the receiver, then reset switches.

My question is: how does the remote and receiver identify each other? If I knew that, I could possibly find a replacement.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

When I pair a remote to a system, there are dipswitches on the receiver that i set, perform a button push on the remote, wait for a response from the receiver, then reset switches.

My question is: how does the remote and receiver identify each other? If I knew that, I could possibly find a replacement.

It sends a data packet, usually for a remote control this consists of a device code (that in this case you would be setting with the dip switches) and a control code (the actual instruction, ON, OFF, UP, DOWN etc.) that is the actual command. For an RF remote there may be other codes in the packet, such as a start-up preamble, and error checking bytes, or the codes could all be sent twice, one lot inverted. There are numerous different schemes.

 

[CMServiceguy]

t sends a data packet, usually for a remote control this consists of a device code (that in this case you would be setting with the dip switches) and a control code (the actual instruction, ON, OFF, UP, DOWN etc.) that is the actual command. For an RF remote there may be other codes in the packet, such as a start-up preamble, and error checking bytes, or the codes could all be sent twice, one lot inverted. There are numerous different schemes.

Our procedure for pairing a remote requires the receiver to be on, move a dip switch on the receiver to the ON position, push both transmission control buttons to FORWARD simultaneously and wait for the receiver to beep (usually immediately upon pushing buttons). Then set the first switch back to off, power cycle the receiver and your done.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Our procedure for pairing a remote requires the receiver to be on, move a dip switch on the receiver to the ON position, push both transmission control buttons to FORWARD simultaneously and wait for the receiver to beep (usually immediately upon pushing buttons). Then set the first switch back to off, power cycle the receiver and your done.

In which case you're setting the receiver (via the dip switch) to learning mode, so it will respond to the next signal it receives. Then you exit learning mode, and the new remote identification is stored.

 

[CMServiceguy]

In which case you're setting the receiver (via the dip switch) to learning mode, so it will respond to the next signal it receives. Then you exit learning mode, and the new remote identification is stored.

So do es that mean any 433 MHz remote could pair with it?

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

So do es that mean any 433 MHz remote could pair with it?

No, only one that uses the exact same system - and there are countless different ones.

You could use a storage scope to record the exact system that yours uses, and reverse engineer it.

For an example of one type of system, the PT2262/2272, used in great numbers commercially (garage doors etc.) works like this:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwj4rO-V8PL9AhUGLsAKHQTSCwUQFnoECAsQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatasheet.lcsc.com%2Fszlcsc%2FPT2262_C16390.pdf&usg=AOvVaw3XY3-i2A3_V7_HTYSKvfit

 

[Pommie]

IF it is a PIC then the chances are that it's a completely proprietary code and not readily available.

Mike.

 

[CMServiceguy]

No, only one that uses the exact same system - and there are countless different ones.

Would there be a way to identify it from the receiver?

 

[Pommie]

Would there be a way to identify it from the receiver?

As Nigel said,

You could use a storage scope to record the exact system that yours uses, and reverse engineer it.

Mike.
Edit, realised that's a different question but I think the answer is the same.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

IF it is a PIC then the chances are that it's a completely proprietary code and not readily available.

Mike.

No matter what the processor, the code will certainly be protected - if you're doing something as stupid as grinding the numbers off, you wouldn't leave them readable

 

[CMServiceguy]

No matter what the processor, the code will certainly be protected - if you're doing something as stupid as grinding the numbers off, you wouldn't leave them readable

And since we can't verify what chip we can't know how to read the code, is that right?

 

[Tony Stewart]

Let me ask a sort of silly question; what would be the odds of finding a complete remote that could pair with the transmitter rather than repair one?

It would be stupid to design such a system to easily steal such a large mobile asset. This is not just a TV remote.

Paired unique authentication should be mandatory.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

And since we can't verify what chip we can't know how to read the code, is that right?

It doesn't matter what the chip is, you won't be able to read the machine code out of it, as it will be read protected.

But as I mentioned above, with a storage scope you can reverse engineer the actual data codes it sends out - but it could be something unique to that specific manufacturer, as it's created in the processor.

 

[rjenkinsgb]

From info on the makers site, it seems these units are also dual-band RF, for redundancy.

That explains the two sub-modules visible in the original photos!

However, I now doubt those are involved with the original "not powering on" fault, if they are both just RF units?
It may be worth tracing the connections from the battery to the board and checking for appropriate voltages??