New Life For PICKIT 3 Stand Alone Programmer App?

Mike - K8LH · Mar 29, 2022

Just wondering if anyone has tried Jaakko Kairus' PICKITminus project to upgrade the Stand Alone Programming App' for their PICKIT 2 or PICKIT 3 to program many, many, almost all (?) PIC devices?

Also, back in 2020 I asked if there was a way to avoid buying an expensive PICKIT 4 to program an 18F27Q43. Recently, after studying Jaromir Sukuba's A-P Programmer code, I've been able to use a relatively inexpensive Arduino Nano clone to read/write/program 18FxxQ40, 18FxxQ41, and 18FxxQ43 devices in LVP (Low Voltage Programming) mode. Fun stuff but I could use a hand writing a Windows "front end" to manage file transfer to/from the Arduino.

Cheerful regards, Mike, K8LH

Nigel Goodwin · Mar 30, 2022

Mike - K8LH said:
Also, back in 2020 I asked if there was a way to avoid buying an expensive PICKIT 4 to program an 18F27Q43. Recently, after studying Jaromir Sukuba's A-P Programmer code, I've been able to use a relatively inexpensive Arduino Nano clone to read/write/program 18FxxQ40, 18FxxQ41, and 18FxxQ43 devices in LVP (Low Voltage Programming) mode. Fun stuff but I could use a hand writing a Windows "front end" to manage file transfer to/from the Arduino.

It's pretty easy to program PIC's, you just wiggle pins up and down, but why limit yourself to low voltage?.

Doing it with a processor (like the Arduino) makes it even easier, as it's far easier to 'wiggle pins' on a micro-controller than on a 'modern' PC - old PC's DOS and upto Win3.1 were fine, but after that things got more difficult.

My 'claim to fame' was writing the worlds first Windows PIC programming software, long before MicroChip ever did any, and I wrote it in Delphi 1.0 moving on from my earlier Turbo Pascal version. A good choice for you would probably be Lazaruz, which is essentially a free version of Delphi. Or Visual BASIC?.

Biggest problem with PIC programming software is the huge variety of different devices, along with a goodly number of different programming algorithms, this is why the PICkits continually download updates to their firmware as you switch between different devices. My first programmer software only supported one PIC, the 16C84 - which was the only electronically reprogrammable one at that time.

granddad · Mar 30, 2022

I got hold of a MC " snap " back on its first release, has been very useful ,(only LV PICs ) and at the time quite cheap 12 GBP i think. ( now 25+vat from Farnell ) I still use PK3 , for me the { debuging is essential }else{ none of my code would work }

tumbleweed · Mar 30, 2022

I've used PICKITminus a couple of times now and so far it's worked ok on the few devices I've tried it on.

It's pretty easy to program PIC's, you just wiggle pins up and down, but why limit yourself to low voltage?

Because if you stick to LVP you don't need to create a programmable HV VPP generator, and you don't have to worry about applying an over-voltage to an incorrectly selected part. As Mike shows it makes the circuit a lot simpler.

augustinetez · Mar 30, 2022

But you do have to worry about devices of the 3.3V VCC only variety eg 12LF1840

tumbleweed · Mar 30, 2022

augustinetez said:
But you do have to worry about devices of the 3.3V VCC only variety eg 12LF1840

True, if you're trying to make a "universal" PIC programmer then devices like the xxLF and 18FJ series complicate it even further.

Nigel Goodwin · Mar 30, 2022

tumbleweed said:
I've used PICKITminus a couple of times now and so far it's worked ok on the few devices I've tried it on.

Because if you stick to LVP you don't need to create a programmable HV VPP generator, and you don't have to worry about applying an over-voltage to an incorrectly selected part. As Mike shows it makes the circuit a lot simpler.

You don't really need one anyway, the majority of PIC's use a similar voltage. Using HV programming saves resources on the PIC.

Mike - K8LH · Mar 30, 2022

Yes, to use LVP on these more recent devices the MCLR pin must retain the MCLR function (you can't use MCLR as an input).

Last year I attempted to use an interrupt driven charge pump for HVP (8.3v output) but couldn't get into "program & verify" mode. I may try again.

I think more people might build projects that include a PIC microcontroller if they don't have to buy an expensive PICKIT 4 programmer for what may well be a "one off" project. For example, I made an Arduino 'sketch' that includes the PIC firmware as a const array to program the 16F18877 chip for the new version of Karen Orton's PICL/NIBL (SC/MP) computer (see below)(more info' here). Kind of a "Programmer to Go" using an Arduino Nano.

Stay safe, guys. Regards...

Nigel Goodwin · Mar 30, 2022

Mike - K8LH said:
Yes, to use LVP on these more recent devices the MCLR pin must retain the MCLR function (you can't use MCLR as an input).

Last year I attempted to use an interrupt driven charge pump for HVP (8.3v output) but couldn't get into "program & verify" mode. I may try again.

I think more people might build projects that include a PIC microcontroller if they don't have to buy an expensive PICKIT 4 programmer for what may well be a "one off" project. For example, I made an Arduino 'sketch' that includes the PIC firmware as a const array to program the 16F18877 chip for the new version of Karen Orton's PICL/NIBL (SC/MP) computer (see below)(more info' here). Kind of a "Programmer to Go" using an Arduino Nano.

Stay safe, guys. Regards...

View attachment 136416 View attachment 136417

Very nice

I remember SC/MP, but never heard of this emulator.

danadak · Mar 30, 2022

Mike - K8LH said:
Yes, to use LVP on these more recent devices the MCLR pin must retain the MCLR function (you can't use MCLR as an input).

Last year I attempted to use an interrupt driven charge pump for HVP (8.3v output) but couldn't get into "program & verify" mode. I may try again.

I think more people might build projects that include a PIC microcontroller if they don't have to buy an expensive PICKIT 4 programmer for what may well be a "one off" project. For example, I made an Arduino 'sketch' that includes the PIC firmware as a const array to program the 16F18877 chip for the new version of Karen Orton's PICL/NIBL (SC/MP) computer (see below)(more info' here). Kind of a "Programmer to Go" using an Arduino Nano.

Stay safe, guys. Regards...

View attachment 136416 View attachment 136417

Wrote a lot of code back in the day on INS8070 and INS8073 with NIBL. Interesting part, could use
address pointer HW as a crude HW multiplier. It was a lot nicer than the COPS (with its non linear
addressing) I was writing for as well, but not as good as IMP16 or PACE. I still see SCAMP parts show
up on ebay. Built a programmable f() generator out of a INS8073. Wire wrap proto mess but worked
pretty good. A small team of us with Interface group tasked with building the lowest parts count terminal
when National introduced the single chip CRT controller INS8350 era, bipolar chip.

National Semiconductor SC/MP - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Regards, Dana.

tumbleweed · Mar 30, 2022

I think more people might build projects that include a PIC microcontroller if they don't have to buy an expensive PICKIT 4 programmer for what may well be a "one off" project.

Even the el cheapo SNAP isn't so "el cheapo" anymore. Seems prices have all gone up.

Maybe a better option is a Curiosity/Curiosity Nano board w/builtin programmer/debugger. They go on sale at MicrochipDirect now and then (devtool deals change every month). Or a decent PK3 clone...

granddad · Mar 31, 2022

tumbleweed said:
Curiosity/Curiosity Nano board w/builtin programmer/debugger.

I wonder if you could ' steal' the boards ICSP signals to drive an external device , you would have to remove or disable the attached micro i guess ... I had done it with a MC PIC24 Microstick

tumbleweed · Mar 31, 2022

Both the Curiosity LPC (DM164137) and Curiosity HPC (DM164136) boards have an unpopulated 0.1" SIL ICSP pattern where you can install a header. The target on those is socketed, so no problems there... just pull it out and you get a PKOB4 programmer (LVP only).

The smaller Curiosity Nano boards also have an ICSP pattern, but there it's a 0.05" SIL pattern, and since the target micro on those is soldered on I don't know an easy way of disabling it short of removing it.

upand_at_them · Apr 7, 2022

Mike - K8LH Did you try the PICKitMinus? And it works fine? A few years ago I took the PICKit2 firmware that Microchip made available and modified it to handle the newer chips that I was using, so I imagine what Jaakko did works. Modifying the firmware and/or the standalone app isn't difficult, but adding each new chip to the device file is time consuming.

Mike

Mike - K8LH · Apr 7, 2022

upand_at_them said:
Mike - K8LH Did you try the PICKitMinus? And it works fine? A few years ago I took the PICKit2 firmware that Microchip made available and modified it to handle the newer chips that I was using, so I imagine what Jaakko did works. Modifying the firmware and/or the standalone app isn't difficult, but adding each new chip to the device file is time consuming.

Mike

Something wrong with my Pickit 3 and that's why I asked if anyone else had tried PICKitMinus...

Mike - K8LH · Apr 8, 2022

Just found my Chinese PICKIT 3 clone and I'm happy to report that PICKITminus works great. I'm very excited because it allows me to program a number of newer chips that would normally require the relatively expensive PICKIT 4.

Nigel Goodwin · Apr 8, 2022

Mike - K8LH said:
Just found my Chinese PICKIT 3 clone and I'm happy to report that PICKITminus works great. I'm very excited because it allows me to program a number of newer chips that would normally require the relatively expensive PICKIT 4.

Nice one

upand_at_them · Apr 8, 2022

That PIC18F27Q43 looks like a nice part, with a 12-bit DAC. I may have to try that one out myself!

Mike - K8LH · Apr 8, 2022

The 18F27Q43 is indeed a nice part. I've got an assembly language template for MPLABX v5.35 and MPASM v5.87 that includes PMD and UART1 initialization and drivers as well as some test code to drive a Charlieplexed LED display one segment at a time (~140-Hz refresh rate). I'd like to explore the DMA peripheral next...

Nigel Goodwin · Apr 9, 2022

upand_at_them said:
That PIC18F27Q43 looks like a nice part, with a 12-bit DAC. I may have to try that one out myself!

You might like to try the PIC18F27K42, which is a nicely specified device as well. It's currently my 'PIC of choice' for new projects.

New Life For PICKIT 3 Stand Alone Programmer App?

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