New User and Help With Ignition Wiring

[Kyle W. Henderson]

First of all, I just joined and did not see a place where new members introduce themselves. I apologize if I missed it by some chance.

Let me start off by saying that the majority of my projects will probably be automotive related. I deal greatly with custom automotive work, both with my own vehicles as well as doing custom work for others.

Now, with that being said, i would like to elaborate as to what I might need help with...

I want to completely remove the key ignition system on my 1992 Honda Accord Wagon. Instead, I want to have (in this order from left to right): Latching switch, latching switch, momentary switch, latching switch. The first two will be white led halo latching switches, the third will be a red led momentary and the last will be a red led power symbol latching. The first is for the IGN (ignition) position of the key. The second is for the ON position of the key. The third is a momentary that will continue to start the car as it is depressed. The last is essentially a kill switch or all power on/all power off. To further complicate things, I want the three latching buttons' leds to come on and they are depressed, however I want the momentary one to be the inverse of that. I want it to turn off while depressed, but on when not pressed.

Here are a few images that may help with understanding exactly what buttons I plan on using:

With that described, I would like to explain that I realize I may need my vehicle wiring diagram in order for some of you to further explain or help. I just want to get this topic started in the mean time to give it time to accrue those of you who might be interested while I pull those files or copy pages from my manuals.

Ok, so I need to verify this but when using a momentary push-to-start (being the third button, it needs to be on when it is not being pressed and off when depressed. Granted, I do not want to have to depress the button the entire time I drive, lol, so is there some way to reverse the switch's behavoir? HOWEVER, I do believe that the switches I am buying have the option to either be open when on or closed when on. Secondly, I understand the basics of the ignition in a car, but explain to me this, if you can... Does turning the key from IGN to ON turn off the IGN and turn the ON on? Or does the IGN turn on and stay on when it is moved to the ON? If it does the first of the two, I would need to make it so that when I turn the ON button on, it would override the IGN button's circuit.

Also, i want to note, I will not need any explanation of how to physically install buttons and/or switches into the dash. I mostly need help with the actual components of the circuit to allow it to function the way I intend it to. Being an older car, I should not have any problem actually removing the key ignition module and running all of the wires to switches considering it does not have as many computer components as many newer cars.

For those of you wondering why I would make my car so easy to "steal". First of all, it stays in a garage protected by a security system. Secondly, I am still working on it, but I have a security system for the car that I am notified if the car is broke into without the key fob, and will be able to shut the car off via text message to it. (PRETTY NEAT, RIGHT? ;D)

So any help would be appreciated. Oh, and I may not be up to date on any acronyms you all probably use, so if it would not be too much to ask, could you elaborate any in parentheses?I am sure I forgot to mention some details, so feel free to ask. I am attacking pictures of the switches/buttons I will be using just to help give a visual image. And I am including this link to help with the understanding of the basics behind a push-to-start system. THANKS!

Awesome Push Button Ignition

Awesome Push Button Ignition: Here's a fun project that I did to my very first car. When I first got it I was quite happy with my purchase, but soon after that I found that I really wanted a sweet push button ignition and an engine kill switch, like a rocket or a race car or som…

www.instructables.com

 

[Kyle W. Henderson]

I went through my files and found all of my electrical files. The AccordWiring82 should prove to be sufficient, but if not, I have the entire vehicle wiring in 132 files 0_0 Just hope I do not have to sift through them again. Lol.

 

[shortbus=]

Kind of scary that you want to do this, but don't even include a schematic that even has the ignition switch in it.

 

[cowboybob]

Welcome, Kyle!

Interesting project. On the surface it doesn't sound too difficult. Some latching circuits here, a bit of rewiring and TADA, it's done.

Although, in reality, probably not that easy but I'm sure you've come to the right place. Or, at the very least, one of the right places.

A side note: for whatever reason, your link fails. selecting it gives **broken link removed** as an address. Sort of a google search key word arrangement.

That, or my IE has had a brain detonation again...

 

[Kyle W. Henderson]

Oh, sorry. I mixed up what text the link displays and what it actually takes you to...

https://www.instructables.com/id/Push-Button-Ignition-for-your-Car/?ALLSTEPS

If you type it in just like that, it should work. Idk why I cant type a hyperlink atm...

The wiring diagram I included shows the wires as they connect to the actual ignition components as opposed to the inition switch. I figured it would be more useful than showing them connecting to the key ignition considering it gives better insight and you just match the colors. But the biggest thing I am unsure of is how the IGN or ACC (I may have mixed them up. I think the order is ACC, ON, IGN) works in accordance with the ON position. I am not sure if the next one overrides the prior or if both stay on in conjunction with one another. I understand the basic wiring of connecting buttons to the wires, but I want to make sure I am not overlooking anything, for example double pulses, relays, etc... I'm only just really starting to delve deeper into circuitry and such, but I do have extensive physics knowledge so it's more so how each component works and how to make sure I am doing it properly.

OH! And thanks for the welcome. I actually got booted from another electrical forum that apparently did not allow automotive discussions. :/ I'll have many other projects as well, like the custom creeper I am building for myself.

 

[cowboybob]

I find it easier to just copy/paste addresses straight into the post. Not very elegant, but it suits me...

ACC is just that, accessories: radio (CD, etc), fan, window motors, etc. IGN enables the power to the engine operation.

On that note, I haven't yet looked at the files you provided, so I could be off here, but:

Ignition switches often, when you cycle through their positions, are designed such that when you move the key from the IGN to the "Start" postion, power to a number of loads (in particular, the headlights) are disabled to allow max power to be applied to the starter.

Have you taken that into consideration in the design of your system?

As for getting booted, all ETO looks for is at least a tangential relevance to things electronic which, perforce, includes things electrical as well.

For that matter, atom related issues. Higgs bosons have be discussed...

 

[Kyle W. Henderson]

I have taken that into consideration but I was trying to read into more before I introduced that aspect. I do not know if I should have the actual start momentary turn the others off only while I am using it (which I should be able to do if I use that aspect of the stock writing).

 

[4pyros]

Latching switch

Are your "Latching" switches push on push off?
Your key switch is high power, notice the 65 amp battery fuse.
First you are going to need 4 circuits as shown on your old key switch;
Acc, IGN1, IGN2, and start.
You are going to need 4 relays that match the current of each of the 4 circuits.
You have the book add up the fuses after the key switch in each of the lines for your rating.
For example if ING2 line has 3 - 20 amp fuses on it, you will need a 60 amp relay.
The relays will be the hard part, wiring the switches is trival.
You are going to need some heavy gage wire for the relays and some place to put them all.
The instructable you linked to is a fire trap and should be removed.
The wires where to small.
Never use solid wire in an automobile.
I would wounder if the current rating on the switches used was enough.
The hole thing was really bad.
The switch's you want to use will never carry the current needed. Thats why you need relays.

 

[4pyros]

I have taken that into consideration but I was trying to read into more before I introduced that aspect. I do not know if I should have the actual start momentary turn the others off only while I am using it (which I should be able to do if I use that aspect of the stock writing).

This is done with ING1 and ING2. One will drop out when starting.

 

[4pyros]

OH! And thanks for the welcome. I actually got booted from another electrical forum that apparently did not allow automotive discussions. :/ I'll have many other projects as well, like the custom creeper I am building for myself.

We do not like to talk about anything that may cause harm.
We will not tell you how to wire a chair to shock someone,
or how to make a cell phone jammer.
Welcome

 

[Kyle W. Henderson]

Are your "Latching" switches push on push off?
Your key switch is high power, notice the 65 amp battery fuse.
First you are going to need 4 circuits as shown on your old key switch;
Acc, IGN1, IGN2, and start.
You are going to need 4 relays that match the current of each of the 4 circuits.
You have the book add up the fuses after the key switch in each of the lines for your rating.
For example if ING2 line has 3 - 20 amp fuses on it, you will need a 60 amp relay.
The relays will be the hard part, wiring the switches is trival.
You are going to need some heavy gage wire for the relays and some place to put them all.
The instructable you linked to is a fire trap and should be removed.
The wires where to small.
Never use solid wire in an automobile.
I would wounder if the current rating on the switches used was enough.
The hole thing was really bad.
The switch's you want to use will never carry the current needed. Thats why you need relays.

Yes, by latching, I mean push on, push off.

Can you explain the IGN1 and IGN2? I've been up for about four days so I might just be tired but that isn't clicking in my head. Is IGN1 the circuit before cranking, and IGN2 the circuit that is used during cranking? If so, then it reverts to IGN1 after you discontinue trying to crank?

I have spools and spools of wire from hairline gauge to 00. So I should be fine there. It's all multiple strands and 99.9% pure copper. I used to do a lot of custom audio installs.

I realize the site a referenced had flaws as such, but it was more so as a reference in case I was failing to explain anything correctly.

If you also would not mind, can you elaborate as to how the relays will allow me to use those switches, whereas otherwise I would not be able to? Honestly, that is an aspect I have not yet been enlightened on. Relays are unfamiliar to me aside from testing and replacing.

Lastly, I am glad the forum seems so open to whatever safe application you desire.

And thank you so far for the advice.

 

[shortbus=]

Usually in a car wiring schematic, the ignition switch inner circuit is shown, at the switch. Then you trace from there to the rest of the circuit.

 

[4pyros]

Can you explain the IGN1 and IGN2?

If you follow the wiring from the key switch on your diagram you should see that IGN1 is everything the engine needs to run and ING2 is everything else that goes on and off with the key.IE Lights, heaters and windows. ING2 is disconnected when the car is cranked over.

can you elaborate as to how the relays will allow me to use those switches

Your switches can only handle low power 1 or 2 amps without burning up.
The circuits you are trying to switch are high power like 20 to 60 amps.
So you use your switch to power the relay that controls the high power circuits.
Look here for more info on relays;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relay

 

[Kyle W. Henderson]

Gotcha. Well I will look over it all and see what I come up with before running it by you guys again.

 

[Kyle W. Henderson]

Sorry I just finished rebuilding my transmission and dropping the motor and everything back in. As soon as I repair some faulty resistors and capacitors in my TCU, I will be back on this project.