Obama bin laden photos?

[HarveyH42]

Looking back to 2005 and today in the UK:



The UK and the EU in general are far from safe of terrorist attacks. Also as Eric points out the US and GB have been allies for over 100 years.

Now I am far from thrilled with every action my country decides to embark upon or how they go about it. I am sure the same is true of many of my friends across the pond. Everyone here has the right to express their opinion(s). Rights are really a nice to have thing but do come with a cost.

The problem I have with the terrorist is they will not be happy till everyone who fails to see things their way is dead. When they attack non combatant civilians to send their message it becomes time to start eradication of them. Personally I am not real big with taking prisoners with these people. These are not the sort of people you can offer an olive branch to and suggest we all get along and live in peace. The moment you turn away they will shove that olive branch (and likely the whole tree) up your ass as they murder you and your family. Therefore I have no reservations about murdering them and their families.

The death of a few leaders is not going to stop them. Their attacks will continue and have become a way of life.

My Opinion
Ron

Well put. These terrorists are just plain murderers, and hold no value for any human life, even their own. I don't think they would ever stop killing, they thrive on the fear an chaos that they create. They really don't even have an actual cause, no country to claim as their home. They use religion as a tool, but I don't think they even care, it just something they can use. Somebody over the years, has used pretty much every religion in a similar manner, it's nothing new. I don't believe for a moment that all Muslims think the same way as these terrorists.

Seems like the White House does enjoy displaying it's 'trophies' from the raid, notice several links to home videos, the seized in the raid. I'm sure there is more to come, once they've sort out their 'haul'.

 

[3v0]

Far from it in fact.

At a point in time, a very large portion of the world map was coloured pink, under the heel of the British Empire.

It was all about resources back then and continues to be so to this day.

Oh we have not forgotten! Taxation without representation.

Japan is doing quite well with no natural resources of it own.

 

[BrownOut]

How can you even claim to have that level of info. And it would not be the first time a president used military action to boost his image.

I am not saying it is so. Thus the word suggested. Nobody here is sitting in on presidential staff meetings.

Simple. I follow the coverage. All of this is easily obtained information. The rest is knowing about military operations, having been a part of the military, etc. These things don't happen without alot of planning and preperation. That's why this kind of success is rare in these situations, becuase it take training and intelligence. A month or two to gather intelligence, plan and execute such an operation isn't at all unusual. You don't have to sit on presedential staff meetings to know this. Still waiting for you to tell me how the timing is advantageous in any way. It's not good enough to just parrot half-baked theories, but if you want to be taken seriously, then you should be able to explain how this is supposed to work. I see no advantage to the timing whatsoever.

And BTW, the target of this operation murdered 3000 Americans, and as pointed out, cause alot of collateral damage. And, he is the leader of the world's most dangerous terrorist organization. That's the purpose of the military action. This is the 3rd consecutive administration that tried to capture or kill bin Laden. Any "boost in his image" is just what happens when a leader does the right thing and tried to make his people safe.

 

[Veraxis]

I am somewhat apprehensive about replying to this thread for fear of becoming entangled in some petty argument over my views, but I feel compelled to give my thoughts on this. Everything I say is simply my opinion, and is not meant to question or discredit the views of any other members' posts.

I was in the City during the 9/11 attacks. I could smell the smoke and the dust as I walked home, and it hung over everything like a haze. I could see the smoke out of my window. I still have a copy of the New York Times from the day after the attacks, with a photo of the second tower being hit on the front cover. I was lucky that no one that I knew closely was killed in the attack, but you never forget a day like that.

I think that the attack was well executed, and was, as far as I can tell, carried out in a professional manner and with the most reasonable outcome to be expected. From what I have read, Bin Laden was captured alive by the strike team, but had to be killed because he was trying to resist capture while they were taking fire from other personnel in the compound. As I see it, I do not think that Bin Laden was ever going to allow himself to be taken alive, and even if he had been successfully captured somehow, his followers would have greatly intensified their attacks while he was imprisoned and on trial. It is hard to say that there really is any true justice when dealing with a man like that.

As far as I can see, his death has not significantly changed anything about the status of our operations there. There will always be extremists, and Al Qaeda will simply find a new leader. The only effect I can see this having, however, is that perhaps with Bin Laden dead, we will want to pull out of that region sooner. Our involvement there seems to me like a no-win situation; it is a vicious cycle: we cannot leave until the violence stops, but staying simply creates more violence, and the more innocent people who are killed, the more that moderate individuals will be driven to join with extremists or become sympathetic to their actions. As to the photos of the body, I see no advantages in releasing them. They will only cause outrage. As to the timing of the strike, I see nothing significant in the timing, and I believe that once the government had confirmation of his location, they would not have risked losing their opportunity by waiting for convenient political timing.

Although not suprising, it saddens me to see to the petty little debates that go on about past events that have nothing to do with the discussion at hand, and conspiracy theories about the political motivations behind the government's actions.

I have an enormous respect for those who have made sacrifices to protect their country, and to those who fight and continue to fight in the Middle East, as well as our foreign allies aiding the United States in fighting terrorism, but I think that our involvements in Middle Eastern countries are counterproductive, and simply play to the strengths of those seeking to profit from the creation of chaos.

This is simply my interpretation of the matter.

JLNY

 

[HarveyH42]

JLNY, I know what you mean about being afraid to post to this thread. I started this, to explore why everything else about the mission is pretty much an open book, there are even photos of three men killed in the raid, one was bin laden son, head wound as well. The White House seems okay about sharing non-sensitive items taken in the raid as well. I don't trust lawyers to speak plainly, accurately, there is usually more to what they are saying. Politicians, usually start out as lawyers, and cut from the same cloth, so I question.

I wasn't looking for arguments, conspiracy, or the name-calling. Just wondered if I was the only one who thought there was something more to the body photos, than what was given. America killed bin laden and son in the raid, and doesn't deny it. Doubt that withholding the photos is going to make it more right to his followers. Recruiting material? Would think that the cold reality of what will eventually be the fate of those who follow that path, would be of much help. Public executions weren't just about punishing the guilty, it was to set an example for other to think about, before committing similar crimes. The methods were usually gruesome, and a horrible way to die, and be remembered.

It is unfortunate, that members here can't freely post their thoughts, without being attack, or made to feel badly, by one or two. I realize that there are people from all around the world, and different cultures, and we can be expected to know what everyone is sensitive, in these threads. An opinion, is simply that, it doesn't need to be proven to anyone, it's not really a topic for debate, unless it's agreed in advance. It's okay to post an opposing opinion, but not to force it on everyone else, as the only right opinion. The right opinion, is your own, period.

 

[BrownOut]

Nobody who still has reservations about OBL's demise, despite the overwhelming information that has been released, including confirmation from Al Qaeda itself, will be satisfied no matter what is done with the pictures. There are already theories that the videos that have been released are faked, and the same people will just say the photos are fake too, no reason whatsoever to release them, especially considering that we still have people in harm's way. The numbers are in, and it's clear that the majority of people around the world don't need to see any more 'proof' and accept the facts that OBL has met his end. The few remaining holdouts won't be convinced no matter what. Probably the same few who think the moon landing was faked and that 9/11 was an inside job. We should never pander to that sect, as it only validates them and gives them the stage they so badly want. Of course, the media had to play up the angle because they think that kind of over the top drama can make them money. But thankfully, that appears to have run its course, and we can get back to something important, and not this kind of tabloid trash.

I agree with everyone who says terrorism is something we will learn to live with. However, all the expert opinions are that Al Qaeda has been irreparably harmed and won't be the same organization as it was before. And, their popularity in the Arab world has greatly deminished. Just as the conspiracy theorists amongst us, there will reamaining pockets of terrorists, but not that global organization that Al Qaeda became. This is good news for the world.

 

[DerStrom8]

Anybode ever notice the title of this thread? Obama bin laden photos vs. Osama bin laden photos ? Which one was it supposed to be?

I was wondering about this, as well. Is this a typo?

 

[killivolt]

I was wondering about this, as well. Is this a typo?

I wouldn't matter anyway's you couldn't edit it. You can Edit everything else but the Thread Starter.

 

[HarveyH42]

I never once implied that, bin laden wasn't killed. The White House wouldn't claim the glory, and put us at risk of reprisals, if it wasn't so. His fellow terrorists, have also confirmed it. Still don't see how showing the results, would be any more provocation, unless the navy guys went above and beyond. I believe there is something more to the photos, than simply a dead terrorist.

The title... yeah, it was intentional.

 

[BrownOut]

There just isn't anything to gain from it, and no reason to take any chances with people still in harms way. As it would not add anything to the evidence that is already out there, no reason to do anything other that exactly what has been done. It doesn't have to have anything at all to do with the SEALS who conducted the operation, just simply no gain to be had.

Bin Laden is 100 fathoms under the ocean. End of story.

 

[HarveyH42]

If it's all over for you, personally, why keep repeating the White House's excuses? We all heard what Obama said, I just don't take the man's word so literally. I have a feeling there is more to the story, lawyers only tell the parts that are convenient or useful. The raid itself was enough provocation, each new item of plunder they release, is pretty much still poking at it. These terrorists are that upset by gruesome images, that's part of the game for them, they know that is the way most of them are going to die.

The DNA test was by a composite fingerprint method, since the didn't have an actual sample to compare with. It confirms that the body was a family member. Based on age, and size, probably close enough, but not 100% conclusive. His associates confirmed it as well, so his death isn't in question. They know how he died, what was taken in the raid, and the body was fed to the fishes, how could images of the body make things any worse? They see worse, daily, because the cause it. They know the price of getting caught, and bin laden paid it. If died like a soldier, they'd accept it.

 

[3v0]

Every person that makes their fear of reprisals public is one more victory for the terrorists.

As long as the world buys their oil they will be well funded. I would much rather we spend the funds on energy research then funding them. Preferably it would be greener energy but I could live with gasoline from coal.

 

[nsaspook]

**broken link removed**

Last Monday, the AP filed a Freedom of Information Act request for the photographic and video evidence taken during the raid on bin Laden's compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan. The organization's FOIA request included a reminder of the president's campaign pledge and a plea to be more transparent than his predecessor. "The Obama White House 'pledged to be the most transparent government in U.S. history," wrote the AP, "and to comply much more closely with the Freedom of Information Act than the Bush administration did.'"

 

[BrownOut]

I write my personal opinions here, not any excuses. I see nothing to gain from the photo release. Why pander to the very few who refuse to acknowledge what is already known? Why take any more chances when there are Americans in harm’s way? This is no victory for the terrorists, rather a victory for free men, and free men don't need to see bullet-ridden corpses to know what happened. As just about everyone has already confirmed, it's very, very obvious that the man has met his end, and so no more evidence is need to this fact. Any conjecture about what the SEALS might have done sounds like more muckraking to me, and I don't see any reason to give any audience to that kind of distraction. It won't make any difference anyway, because there are those who will continue to question the operation even if we drag up the body from the depths and hang it from the Washington Monument. So, no reason to go on and on and on about it. It's a done deal; time to move on. The vast majority of Americans have as has the rest of the world.

It’s incorrect to believe that is in any way a win for the terrorists. The ideological leader of their reign of terror is no more, taken out by a team of commandos from half way around the world. If anything, it proves that no man can hide forever, and that the resolve of their victims won’t be diminished by the years it takes to hunt them down. They may think we fear them, but the rest of the world knows, or should know, it’s only concern for the people who are still in harm’s way. The only way they win would be to come out with something to use as a recruiting tool, and I don’t see anything they can use for that purpose. The larger Arab world would be more happy that America isn’t using an Arab corpse as a trophy, and thus cannot be influenced to drift towards terrorist groups because of this decision. This is a win for free people, not terrorists.

 

[shortbus=]

@BrownOut- Amen. This thread is just an extension of the Global Warming threads. If you don't believe his way you'll never win. Bullies never really get it!

Moderators need to close this thread, it's no longer productive and someone is arguing just to argue.