Pickit 3 for $18, new

[JonSea]

PICkit 2 clones have been all over the place; some of these clones are faithful to the Microchip design, but others lack important features like adjustable supply voltage. You can change to number in the GUI or MPLAP PC software, but the voltage doesn't actually change. I wonder how many devices have been damaged by users who overlooked this "feature"?

Microchip didn't make any secret of the PICkit 2 design – a full schematic is included in the documentation. Perhaps as a move to prevent cloning, a schematic of the PICkit 3 is not widely available, if at all.

Here's what this "original" PICkit 3 from above looks like:

As someone pointed out, the Microsoft M has been replaced with a W.

Goggling around, Newegg in the US offers an "original" PICkit 3 for a similar price, but the image with it shows the regular Microchip logo. If you read the description however, the Chinlish is virtually the same.

Continuing my search (approaching the 5 minute mark here) iTead Studios offers a PICkit 3 clone at a much higher price. Does the picture look familiar?

No question that it's a clone. It says so right in the description.

So, yeah, I think we can safely conclude the $18 PICkit 3 is a clone. Authorized by Microchip? Doubtful. Does it faithfully duplicate all of the features of the real deal? I don't think there's any way to know how close it comes to the real deal since Microchip has been extremely protective of the PICkit 3 schematic.

 

[MrAl]

Hi,

When i first read the title of this thread i thought it read something like:
"Pickit, 3 for 18 dollars",
meaning three complete units for 18 dollars

Now that i see that it is actually the PicKit 3, and only one unit, it's not that big of a deal anymore.

I think anything that helps Microchip sell chips is beneficial to them, but there could be damages in the long run.
If the said clone is not exactly built to the same standards as MC's official unit and people still think it came from Microchip, then they might start to loose faith in the overall MC solution and start looking elsewhere if something doesnt work right. I hate to say it but it could even be a ploy used by another company to try to persuade customers to turn away from MC. Hopefully that's not the case here but these days you never know what they are up to.
It would be interesting to hear what Microchip has to say about this, but then there are a lot of clones out there already that do specify that they are clones and not made by MC. If they do work right, MC sells more chips.

 

[Ian Rogers]

Perhaps they have PERMISSION....but then you seem to have made up your mind before hearing both sides.

I doubt it... India doesn't recognize patents.... But if Microchip ALLOWS people to make these devices ( I have made 2 clones).... They give you the schematics!!! They are only concerned with selling silicon.... If you sell a pickit clone then that's more folk using pic's.... That's got to be a result for Microchip...

 

[NorthGuy]

I don't think it's illegal to clone hardware unless they violate patents. PICKit3 consists of Microchip controller with built-in USB firmware and some simpe supporting hardware. Firmware, actually, is not part of the device because MPLAB re-loads firmware depending on the chip you use. The controller is sold my Microchip. The supporting hardware is very simple. I don't really understand which part of PICKit3 constitutes an intellectual property they supposedly steal.

 

[MrAl]

Hi,

If the name is registered then you cant use it right?

 

[ronsimpson]

They give you the schematics!!!

MicroChip does not publish the schematic for "3".

which part of PICKit3 constitutes an intellectual property they supposedly steal

The 'boot loader' is not replaced by MPLAB. That is the part that talks to MPLAB and receives the new program.

It is one thing to make a clone. It is another to put MicroChip's name on it. Some of the software copies come with holograph stickers. Real hart to tell what is real.

 

[Ian Rogers]

MicroChip does not publish the schematic for "3".

https://www.sparkfun.com/datasheets/Programmers/PICkit_3_User_Guide_51795A.pdf
Page 65...

 

[nsaspook]

Microchip Trademarks
**broken link removed**

Hi,

If the name is registered then you cant use it right?

 

[Overclocked]

For what its worth, There are schematics for the Pickit3

https://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/51795B.pdf

Appendix B. Essentially anyone can make this programmer then.

 

[MrAl]

Hi,

That's interesting, "PicKit" is on the list.

So we see the schematics, do they also release the firmware for the uC chip(s) used for this programmer?

 

[3v0]

The firmware needed for each chip or chip family is downloaded from MPLAB

 

[tunedwolf]

I won't wade into the legality aspect of large scale far eastern counterfeiting, that's a whole other debate. I do think however, any sensible person should be able to deduce that ripping off someone else's hard work is wrong on several fronts, legal or otherwise. I'll leave that there.

As Microchip supply the documentation, schema and firmware for their device freely to all and sundry, it strikes me that they are actively encouraging end users of their products to roll their own development platform, for themselves. The fact that they are doing this shows that they have the foresight to see that this practise is only going to benefit them in the longer term. Plus there are other unseen benefits for them in terms of product development and feedback, from an actively engaged audience, that money simply cannot buy. It also gives those on limited budgets a relatively easy path into their product portfolios. The fact that they are happily willing to supply good quality schematics and high quality images of enclosure design and other bountiful documentation is, to my mind at least, an open invitation from them for everyone that has a need for one and the skills to build such a device, to follow their standardised and what appears to be, a fully supported design and development platform. This levels the playing field considerably for them in terms of end user support while covering the needs of the small guy who likes building twinkly LED projects in his basement to the prospective new multinational start up company with big ideas. All are using the self same high quality, Microchip designed, development platform and plentiful product support. It really is a stroke of genius on their part. Specifically, as far as cloned development programmers of Microchip design are concerned, I see nothing wrong in reproducing them, even for sale to those that lack the skills or tooling perhaps to do so themselves, providing the devices are clearly labelled and sold as such, i.e a clone device.

 

[3v0]

It is sort of sad that the people making the clones do not accept what rights they are freely given. The only reason for faking the original packaging is to fool the consumer. How can that be good?

 

[Overclocked]

What I find interesting is that the front end uses a 24F. My Microstick II uses a 24F as well, and can program PICs in the 24/32 bit range. It makes me wonder if i could just upload the firmware for a Pickit3 onto it.

 

[MrAl]

The firmware needed for each chip or chip family is downloaded from MPLAB

Hi,

You mean that the internal PC board with the PIC chip, the PIC chip that does all the work does not have ANY program code in it BEFORE it is connected to the MPLAB for the very first time?

In other words, if we built a board, stuck in a brand new PIC chip (of the right part number) it would work without any program code programmed into it?

Another way of looking at this, if we bought a PicKit 3 and pulled out the PIC chip that is on the board and replaced it with a brand new PIC chip with no program code in it yet, it would work just the same with MPLAB?

 

[ronsimpson]

You mean that the internal PC board with the PIC chip, the PIC chip that does all the work does not have ANY program code in it BEFORE it is connected to the MPLAB for the very first time?

In other words, if we built a board, stuck in a brand new PIC chip (of the right part number) it would work without any program code programmed into it?

Another way of looking at this, if we bought a PicKit 3 and pulled out the PIC chip that is on the board and replaced it with a brand new PIC chip with no program code in it yet, it would work just the same with MPLAB?

If you put a blank PIC in you will have no function. You must use a PIC with a "boot loader" program in it. The "blank" PIC must talk to MPLAB and take the data and put it in to FLASH then, when commanded, run the program. (some boot loaders have functions like program at xxxx, read from xxx, go, debug/single step, etc)

MicroChip publishes the boot loader for each part that can write to FLASH.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Hi,

That's interesting, "PicKit" is on the list.

So we see the schematics, do they also release the firmware for the uC chip(s) used for this programmer?

It certainly was in the past, including the source code on the older PICKit's - no idea if it still is?.

 

[MrAl]

Hello again,

Ron:
Ok that explains it very nicely
So i guess if we did not have a way to program in the boot loader, we'd have to buy a board to do that first
This is why i was asking about the "firmware",which in this case is the bootloader.

Nigel:
Yeah i wasnt sure but i looked at the list of trademarks and sure enough it's on there.
But since they publish all the data necessary to create a home version, i dont think they would mind if other companies built one and because this would be for the PIC line of chips alone, it would have to benefit MC sooner or later. I think it would be illegal to put "Microchip" or "PicKit3" stamped on it though, because these are trademarks. But i wonder about something along the lines of, "PicKit3 Clone", which seems boarderline theft, but will MC care since that too would be ONLY for the PIC line of chips.

It appears that if you live in China you can get away with it, but in the USA there will be problems. Microchip will even request that you remove any reference to their product along with yours if it seems to imply that your product is just as good as theirs and they havent had a chance to prove that it really is. Thus "Compatible with PicKit3" may not even be acceptable in the USA.