PWM - browns gas generator

killivolt · Jul 22, 2008

He doesn't know about the others does he.

karenhornby said:
see this thread
https://www.electro-tech-online.com/threads/hydrogen-for-hybrid-conversions.40324/#post328524 ( page 6 and after, the pages before it are interesting but I think you'll see why i said page 6 onwards

It's like a christmas tree many branches that connect to your thread ? Still confused but cool.

How'd you do that ?

jpanhalt · Jul 22, 2008

robfowlr said:
Oil Companies hold everyone hostage.

Thanks for all of the facts. That really helps clear up the matter and avoids anyone having to do all those boring experiments.

Here is one you forgot:

FACT: Browns gas is what the Cleveland football (American football) team runs out of each November.

John

Electric_EyE · Jul 22, 2008

HAHA! My wife is from Wadsworth. She laughed at your comment and said "that's true". Heh...

Now, on topic, our boy Stan Meyers was from yer southern parts of OH. How come you don't back up one of your own? (BTW, j/k)

Hero999 · Jul 22, 2008

robfowlr said:
FACT: Hydrogen or HHO makes the engine run cooler, cleaner more efficent.

If you new the first thing about thermodynamics nube, you'd know that for greater efficiency the engine needs to be hotter, not cooler. The larger the temperature gradient the higher the possible thermodynamic efficiency.

FACT: I.C.E (internal combustion engine) run dirty on carbon based fuels, diesel and gasoline. * look up ethanol, most gas is sold with 10 % so out out the 9/10ths of a gallon you pay for ... your only getting 7.73% of actual gasoline.
hydrogen can increase the burn rate of ethanol and gas so there is less heat and less loss of usable power eliminating the use of cat converters.

Fact: ethanol can be made from non-renewable oil and desil can be made from renewable souces such as plants.

FACT: water has an electrical resonance of the oxygen and hydrogen electrons, if you cause a breakdown of the covalent bonded electrons they will separate or release the their shared magnetic attraction because the shared electrons are replaced by induced electrons from electrolysis. simple example is three magnets, the opposite poles attract two of the three but as soon as you add a third it changes the magnetic "hold" and attraction of opposite poles and the magnets break apart , so if you add electrons to the H2o molecule at the breakdown freq. it will separate.

Your vein attempt at trying to blind us with science doesn't work, it makes you look like a total nubetard as, unlike on your forum, most people here know about the basic laws of physics

Even if you knew what you're talking about and you don't, how does this reinforce you argument?

TRUTH: hydrogen is the most abundance renewable resource in the universe, our sun uses it as its "MAIN" fuel and in that process it causes nuclear reactions or fission which regenerates a portion of the energy that is lost as heat.

Truth: it also takes as much energy to split 2H2O into 2H2+O2 than you get back when you recombine them to form 2H2O.

The only know way to get energy from water is to strip the hydrogen off it and perform nuclear fusion on it to produce helium (like stars do). Unfortunately this technology isn't advanced enough to give us a usable power source.

It's pretty obvious that no cold fusion is going on in your electrolysis cell so you're not gaining anything.

Mikebits · Jul 22, 2008

Truth: it also takes as much energy to split 2H2O into 2H2+O2 than you get back when you recombine them to form 2H2O.

I am confused. The coeffecient 2 proceeding H2O indicates 2 molecules of water. Therefore splitting 2H2O ----> H2O(g) + H2O(g).
Do you not mean H20--->H2(g) + O(g).

Space Varmint · Jul 22, 2008

Hmmm interesting concept. A successive steam engine. Perhaps steam all together. I saw a thing on PBS where they had stated that a corn burning stove was very efficient. I just hate to see the food crop destroyed. It is obviously some sort of GMO corn which I believe over 50% is now anyway.

Electric_EyE · Jul 23, 2008

Mikebits said:
I am confused. The coeffecient 2 proceeding H2O indicates 2 molecules of water. Therefore splitting 2H2O ----> H2O(g) + H2O(g).
Do you not mean H20--->H2(g) + O(g).

Maybe he meant hydrogen peroxide h2o2 (not 2h2o)?

Hero999 · Jul 23, 2008

No, I didn't I just ballanced the equation.

This isn't helped by the fact that the forum software doesn't allow for subscripts.

Mikebits said:
I am confused. The coeffecient 2 proceeding H2O indicates 2 molecules of water. Therefore splitting 2H2O ----> H2O(g) + H2O(g).
Do you not mean H20--->H2(g) + O(g).

Your equation is not ballanced like mine is.

There's no such thing as O, unless you're talking about a free radical which would be O dot. Oxygen is diatomic meaning it's always O2 and so is hydrogen, H2.

The ratio of hydrogen to oxygen is 2:1 so you need two water molecules to get two H2 molecules and one O2 molecule and vice versa:

I'll do it in Latex to make it clearer.

[latex]
2H_2O \rightarrow 2H_2 + O_2[/latex]
[latex]2H_2 + O_2 \rightarrow 2H_2O[/latex]

Here's another example involving the combustion of methane CH4.

[latex]CH_4 + 2O_2 \rightarrow 2H_2O + CO_2[/latex]

Beldirnik · Jul 23, 2008

Flex
I like your schematic just wondering if you thought of using a TC4420 Mosfet Driver and a couple other additions. It might get you closer to the results your looking for. Just a thought.

Mikebits · Jul 23, 2008

Hero999 said:
No, I didn't I just ballanced the equation.

This isn't helped by the fact that the forum software doesn't allow for subscripts.

Your equation is not ballanced like mine is.

There's no such thing as O, unless you're talking about a free radical which would be O dot. Oxygen is diatomic meaning it's always O2 and so is hydrogen, H2.

The ratio of hydrogen to oxygen is 2:1 so you need two water molecules to get two H2 molecules and one O2 molecule and vice versa:

I'll do it in Latex to make it clearer.

[latex]
2H_2O \rightarrow 2H_2 + O_2[/latex]
[latex]2H_2 + O_2 \rightarrow 2H_2O[/latex]

Here's another example involving the combustion of methane CH4.

[latex]CH_4 + 2O_2 \rightarrow 2H_2O + CO_2[/latex]

Point taken.

Myles · Aug 1, 2008

jpanhalt said:
@Torben,

As has been stated earlier, it borders on religion or cult behavior. John

Am I late for church?

Myles · Aug 1, 2008

Completely off topic, my apologies...

Hero999 said:
There's no such thing as O, unless you're talking about a free radical which would be O dot. Oxygen is diatomic meaning it's always O2 and so is hydrogen, H2.

I think the welding aspect of HHO's amazingness comes from the monatomic state of Hydrogen and Oxygen. mainly just the hydrogen. Monatomic Hydrogen turns into a neutron if is expands. Well, it's neucleous does, the electron just goes awol.

HHO probably has plasmonic qualities, but I'm sure it is a mixture and not a compound as is suggested rather often. Hydrogen doesn't stay monatomic, not even in natural gas reserves. It is very unstable when it's monatomic. A little heat and it's a neutron.

But agreed, in all naturally observe states it is diatomic.

Ps. on free radicals... O- is a free radical. Because it has a valence of 7, and thus strips hydrogen from peptides. this is bad for the body. But we need junk removed from the body. So do we drink chlorine? no. we use valence 6 elements, ie Sulphur, Oxygen. I am terrified by the ignorance generated by calling Oxygen a free radical. We've been breathing for 3 Billion years, if it was bad for us, well, we wouldn't be here. O2 in the air, O1 in the blood.

We put Chlorine and flouride in our water system. Halogens!!
Why do we do it? Because it's done. It is prudent, but so were lead water pipes in Roman times. Observe the creation of the Hydroxyl Radical:

NaCl + H2O -> Na(+) + Cl(-) + H2O -> HCl + OH(-) + Na(+)

And that's just table salt...
But our bodies can handle a bit, and we need the sodium for pituitary and kidney function (and other stuff.. )

Anyway, just wanted to comment on how Halogens were the cause of non-fatal cell degradation and Free radical generation.

Valence 6 = Carbon grabber = Destroyer
Valence 7 = Hydrogen grabber = Damager

I'd rather have a dead cell than a damaged one, because it's easier to replace than repair in a body that make 300 million red blood cells a day.

Anyhow sorry again for the irrrelevance to our chosen topic.

Conrad_Turbo · Aug 1, 2008

Myles said:
I think the welding aspect of HHO's amazingness comes from the monatomic state of Hydrogen and Oxygen. mainly just the hydrogen. Monatomic Hydrogen turns into a neutron if is expands. Well, it's neucleous does, the electron just goes awol.

HHO probably has plasmonic qualities, but I'm sure it is a mixture and not a compound as is suggested rather often. Hydrogen doesn't stay monatomic, not even in natural gas reserves. It is very unstable when it's monatomic. A little heat and it's a neutron.

But agreed, in all naturally observe states it is diatomic.

Ps. on free radicals... O- is a free radical. Because it has a valence of 7, and thus strips hydrogen from peptides. this is bad for the body. But we need junk removed from the body. So do we drink chlorine? no. we use valence 6 elements, ie Sulphur, Oxygen. I am terrified by the ignorance generated by calling Oxygen a free radical. We've been breathing for 3 Billion years, if it was bad for us, well, we wouldn't be here. O2 in the air, O1 in the blood.

We put Chlorine and flouride in our water system. Halogens!!
Why do we do it? Because it's done. It is prudent, but so were lead water pipes in Roman times. Observe the creation of the Hydroxyl Radical:

NaCl + H2O -> Na(+) + Cl(-) + H2O -> HCl + OH(-) + Na(+)

And that's just table salt...
But our bodies can handle a bit, and we need the sodium for pituitary and kidney function (and other stuff.. )

Anyway, just wanted to comment on how Halogens were the cause of non-fatal cell degradation and Free radical generation.

Valence 6 = Carbon grabber = Destroyer
Valence 7 = Hydrogen grabber = Damager

I'd rather have a dead cell than a damaged one, because it's easier to replace than repair in a body that make 300 million red blood cells a day.

Anyhow sorry again for the irrrelevance to our chosen topic.

You need to take a chemistry class at a local college...or even highschool. Enough said.

Hero999 · Aug 1, 2008

Myles said:
HHO probably has plasmonic qualities, but I'm sure it is a mixture and not a compound as is suggested rather often.

Yes, HHO is a mixture, not a compound, I don't think anyone was suggesting it was a compound.

I am terrified by the ignorance generated by calling Oxygen a free radical. We've been breathing for 3 Billion years, if it was bad for us, well, we wouldn't be here. O2 in the air, O1 in the blood.

I didn't think anyone was suggesting that oxygen in is most common form, O2, is a free radical - anyone with a basic knowledge of chemestry knows that.

All I was saying is that monatomic oxygen is a free radical.

You've confused me, what do you mean by O1 in the blood? I take it you're not talking about free radicals in the blood which doesn't happen in a healthy person. ;D

jpanhalt · Aug 1, 2008

Hero999 said:
I didn't think anyone was suggesting that oxygen in is most common form, O2, is a free radical - anyone with a basic knowledge of chemestry knows that.

Oxygen in its ground state -- the stuff you are breathing -- is a triplet and is commoningly referred to as a radical.

wikipedia said:
Stable Radicals
The prime example of a stable radical is molecular dioxygen O2.

China arrested all of the other free radicals in preparation for the Olympics.

John

Hero999 · Aug 1, 2008

jpanhalt said:
Oxygen in its ground state -- the stuff you are breathing -- is a triplet and is commoningly referred to as a radical.

I totally made a fool of myself there.

I meant to say.

"I didn't think anyone was suggesting that oxygen in is most common form, O2, is a free radical - anyone with a basic knowledge of chemestry knows that it isn't a free radical."

I'm now really annoyed with myself for making such a simple mistake.

oviraptor · Sep 1, 2008

Alternate Power source

what if an alternate power source was available. Say 223 watt solar panel creating the browns gas?

killivolt · Sep 1, 2008

And then.

oviraptor said:
what if an alternate power source was available. Say 223 watt solar panel creating the browns gas?

Put it in the space shuttle. Mmmmmm

It's possible.

kv

Flex · Sep 2, 2008

oviraptor said:
what if an alternate power source was available. Say 223 watt solar panel creating the browns gas?

That would work.
Also keeping the power usage down to 15amp without a solar panel on the car works too.
Keep in mined to fully bench test the cell. I have seen some designs that worked good for the first 1 hour, then as things start to deteriorate because of a bad design the amp's got to high from a bad connection. So know the limits of the things you make the cell out of and know the limits of the cell. You may want to service the cell(clean it out) about when its time for an oil change or once a week to keep the contamination in the cell down and the production of HHO up.

I have made a few cells and they are working in cars to this day, the one car is a v8 and only gets 12% increase in full economy. Then there are a few 4 bangers i have added cells to and they get about a 25% and up increase in full economy. Since I was turned onto using Lye in the cell it seems to work a lot better, but it is a very dangerous and corrosive alkaline. So when I install a cell I tend to add in about 1/2 cup of Lye to the bottom of the cell and tell the customer to keep it full of water.

Good Luck

Thunderchild · Sep 2, 2008

why not just buy one of those compressed air cars and keep a panel or two on the roof ? drive to work and when you come out its charged and ready to go again !

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