Remote Switch Devices Turn On By Themselves & Energy Savings

[jack0987]

I have a bunch of X10 modules (first image) like in picture and thought I would put them to use.

With some electronic devices plugged in, the modules would turn on by themselves after being shut off.
On one computer plugged into them, it turns on and then shuts off repeating this over and over about every thirty seconds.

Others have expressed this about other systems such as in second image.

To correct this problem, I added a double pole relay to the power circuit following the module to disconnect both line and neutral. This seems to work.

Three things I can think of:

1. Why does this happen?
2. Since there still seems to be a connection in the off mode (not to mention the added energy consumption of the module itself), are we really saving any power?
3. Other solutions?

 

[rjenkinsgb]

I am not a big fan of Raspberry Pi.

Will Homeseer will run on a windows pc?

Absolutely, it's a more capable version for Windows - that costs rather more, though, due to that. The Pi version is just the smallest and cheapest option. My original system is a Windows one, just ona vero old and tired machine, running XP.

The replacement dedicated homeseer machine I've just got direct from them ("HomeTroller PRO") is based on a Shuttle DL20, custom badged and with homeseer pro pre-installed. Whilst it was on the black friday offer, it was cheaper than the same hardware from elsewhere, plus windows & the HS4 licence. It came with Windows 10 & auto boots into the homeseer system.

Note the similarity!

XPC slim DL20N

Fanless 1-litre PC suitable for 24/7 operation

www.shuttle.eu

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[jack0987]

Disconnecting the LED is something you MUST do - as it uses massively more than the processor in sleep. However, you should also use transistors, or FET's to switch all sensors etc. completely off when not in use.

I have now disconnected the onboard power indicator LED.

In addition, I made a software change that may save a little more battery power.

In the software setup, 5 pins are set to be pulled up. Once they are read, they are no longer needed. So then, I did this for ech one:

digitalWrite (pin, LOW); //do this first
pinMode (pin, OUTPUT);

 

[jack0987]

Absolutely, it's a more capable version for Windows - that costs rather more, though, due to that. The Pi version is just the smallest and cheapest option. My original system is a Windows one, just ona vero old and tired machine, running XP.

Just thinking out loud. With Windows, one of the things I can use is the remote desktop.

Now. What is the battery life of their wireless sensors?

 

[jack0987]

At 110/120 Vac, the coil current is around 10 to 11 mA, considerably more than the TRIAC leakage current. In terms of system energy, it uses the same energy in 1 hour of on time as the leakage power during 10 hours of off time.

In my conclusions, a latching relay is what is really needed in these remote switching devices. I know of none that have them. Also, my disconnecting of the neutral, though maybe good, serves no real purpose.

 

[rjenkinsgb]

What is the battery life of their wireless sensors?

I never use battery powered sensors.

For me, anything to do with security or control should be as near 100% reliable and "fit and forget" as possible. All my security & automation device, fixed computers etc. are hard wired.

Plus the security & cctv are self contained with no reliance on internet connections. I can monitor & control everything via mobile apps, but nothing relies on that.

The Z-Wave stuff uses wireless communications, but that is two way with multiple attempts to control and confirm actions, and if something does fail it does not compromise the security system in any way.


The battery powered modules from major manufacturers are supposed to have good battery life, a year or so? I'd not trust the economy / unbranded ones for that.


Re. mains power usage, a lot of the newer versions of Z-Wave wired-in or plug-in control modules have power metering included.

Example - two channel switching, two switch monitoring inputs, 0.4W power use and energy monitoring & reporting:

Qubino Relay Insert 2*1 kW with energy meter

Qubino Relay Insert 2*1 kW with energy meter

z-wavelab.com

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

In my conclusions, a latching relay is what is really needed in these remote switching devices. I know of none that have them. Also, my disconnecting of the neutral, though maybe good, serves no real purpose.

For good reason, it would be a VERY serious safety issue - as following a power cut the device has no way of knowing what position the relay might be in.

 

[jack0987]

In the software setup, 5 pins are set to be pulled up. Once they are read, they are no longer needed. So then, I did this for ech one:

digitalWrite (pin, LOW); //do this first
pinMode (pin, OUTPUT);

I may have to rethink this. For some reason. the processor started to lock up.
It has never done that before.

 

[jack0987]

For good reason, it would be a VERY serious safety issue - as following a power cut the device has no way of knowing what position the relay might be in.

X10 modules seem to retain their state after a power cut. There is an audible click when they switch. Yet, it has all the signs of leakage. For lack of better knowledge on my part, I intend to change to latching devices even if I have to build them myself.

One is possibly using these:
HiLetgo 12V Single Bistable Self-Locking Relay Module Push to Start and Stop

The drawback for me is they are not remote or wirelessly controlled. I would have to add that circuitry. I could hard wire them but making them wireless (Preferred) is beyond my scope of learning.

Here is another possibility:

ELECTRONICS-SALON Panel Mount Momentary-Switch/Pulse-Signal Control Latching SPDT Relay Module,12V​

They also have a two relay version if you want to do neutral as well (also preferred).
The relay itself is not latching. It restores it's previous state after power is restored.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

X10 modules seem to retain their state after a power cut. There is an audible click when they switch. Yet, it has all the signs of leakage.

It may well be adjustable to either boot-up as OFF or boot-up to the last previous state, or even boot-up as ON, Philips Hue light bulbs etc. are adjustable in that way.

For lack of better knowledge on my part, I intend to change to latching devices even if I have to build them myself.

You've free to do whatever you want for your own use.