RPC cuts power bill?

[MrAl]

A contractor once told me: "You want to save energy at home? Put extra insulation! That is the easiest, lowest maintenance and cheapest in the long run."

Sage words.
When I built my new home 3 years ago I followed his advice. I added about $2600 in extra insulation and better windows, which in the total cost of a new home, is nothing. People spend more than that in bathroom fixtures.

Nowadays, although this new home is about 40% larger than my older one, my energy consumption is about 5% lower.

Another one, but this is a long time investment: trees. Two or three strategically located shade trees can do wonders during summertime in our south Texas weather.

Hi,

Shade trees, good idea. The energy from the sun is about 1000 watts per square meter. That's a LOT of energy hitting the roof. That's plenty of heat in the summer time. The difference is amazing. California or parts of California outlawed dark colored roofs in new constructions for that very reason, to conserve energy in the summer time.
It always amazes me how much energy we get from the sun when we get direct sunlight. If we could harness that 1000 watts per square meter it would power a microwave oven, air conditioner, water pump, TV, computer, etc., with about 3 square meters of solar panels. On the practical end though the panels are not that efficient, and we have to store more energy in the daylight hours than needed for use at night. That ups the square footage of solar panels needed by a lot, as well as brings in the need for some sort of energy storage system.

 

[Inquisitive]

The ultimate energy conservation method is... off!

 

[Reloadron]

No, I understand that. My electric bill has been dropping by ~$10 every month since my divorce and my getting the Ex moved out.

Coincidence? Maybe, but I'm not going to question the plausibility of the connection too far. I mean the cost behind everything else about living here has dropped drastically as well, so....? Could it be?

Didn't you just get married a few years back? Thought it was you anyway?
When my dad passed away it was sort of interesting having two ex wives and a current wife at the funeral.

Ron

 

[tcmtech]

Didn't you just get married a few years back? Thought it was you anyway?

Yep. Lasted 5 years before she became the type of person I can't stand to be around whereas in those 5 years I barely changed a bit, just like I said I would.

It's a long and very amusing story.

 

[Reloadron]

Yep. Lasted 5 years before she became the type of person I can't stand to be around whereas in those 5 years I barely changed a bit, just like I said I would.

It's a long and very amusing story.

Been there and done that. Thought it was you. Hey, five years is pretty good.

Ron

 

[tcmtech]

Yea it was an amicable split. She said she was leaving for about 2 years then one day I called her bluff and made her stick to it.

I was/am an unemployed useless bum with no income (My year in oil field pulling ~$100K and putting a pile of it into home improvements and savings didn't count as real work) and she figured that she would be money and time ahead to live in town on her own.

Now she can't make it on her just over $50K year 40 hour a week job plus somehow also has no time either so she has to borrow money every now and then from my 'unemployed useless butt' which is fine being now that we are not married she is legally obligated to pay me back and on time too!

Oh well. That must be the price you have to pay to be right at all costs. Glad it's not part of my bill set anymore.

 

[Reloadron]

I remember when you did the oil fields with the water truck. Amicable is good. I had one kid with my first and two with the second. I know all about spousal support and alimony. God, glad it is all long behind me. My son just got married last week and for the first time in 25 years my second ex and current wife actually spoke to each other and had a good time.

Ron

 

[tcmtech]

Yea the water truck job ended horribly a long time ago. Two idiot managers were doing some illegal stuff behind the scenes, on top of just being idiots, and figured a 'dumb North Dakotan' like me would be an easy fall guy to pin it on. Nope. Stuff hit the fan big time!

When I worked there the people who owned the company had bought it for ~$850 million. A few years after I left they sold out and barely got $125 million and claimed it was because they couldn't make any profit in the oil fields.

The last one was at a Fracking company and I have to say it was probably one of my favorite and all around most enjoyable jobs I have ever had and rather hope the oilfields fire up again so I can go back to work there.

 

[large_ghostman]

Smart meters over 5 years old are easy to defeat, you can lower the £ per unit used or adjust various things. Think how they would be read remotely..............more modern ones dont use the manf default password, I only found out by accident and wouldnt dream of messing with the meter!

Solar heating is a smart move and saves a huge amount especially decent home made units

 

[strantor]

Smart meters over 5 years old are easy to defeat, you can lower the £ per unit used or adjust various things.

You're telling me that the usage data transmitted back to the utility company is in units of £/$ and not in kWH? That seems very unintuitive. Why would it be done that way? Does each house have a different deal on their electric rate? If so, does the meter man have to come out and reprogram your meter if you strike a new deal with the power company? My electric bill shows how many kWH I used, times the dollar amount in my contract, and the resultant fee. If I had a special deal (which I don't think is possible, maybe a there's a price difference for business addresses), I'm sure my rate would be stored on the utility company's server, not on my meter, and they could adjust it from within an office somewhere remotely.

 

[gary350]

I used my watt meter to test everything in the house. The electric clothes dryer is about 40% of our electric bill. A timer on the hot water heater saves 15%. The NEW house that we had built has Styrofoam in the walls and 1/2" plywood on the studs. Water pipes are insulated. 18" of blow in insulation in the attic. The whole house was sealed from air leaks with caulking before the brick was put on. Air duct pipes are insulated. High efficiency heat and AC system and high efficiency refrigerator. Cook in a crock pot instead of a kitchen stove as often as possible. We have double glass windows. We have window shades on the outside of the windows NOT on the inside. Sun gets blocked before it comes through the window in the summer so the heat stays outside. In the winter I want all the sun we can get. Lights that produce more light, less heat, use less power are best too. Make sure all the windows and doors seal when they close. If you have a black roof you good working need attic vents in the summer.

Our nasty neighbor calls city code every time we hang cloths on the close line. LOL what a *****.

Our nasty neighbor does not like my TV antenna either. SO WHAT!

The new house is 42% larger than the old house and our utilities bills dropped from about $220 to $140 a month.

2 weeks ago we down sized from a 2400 sq ft house to a 1500 sq ft house don't know yet what bills will be like here.

 

[tcmtech]

Until I get the new hose done some time in the next 10 - 20 years I am still living in my old 1974 14' x 70' partially fixed up trailer which is for eh most part like trying heat a parking lot in the winter and air condition a greenhouse in the summer.

Around her our remote read meters just send their ID number and KWH readings. All other adjustments to the bills are handled at the main office on the computer systems.

 

[large_ghostman]

You're telling me that the usage data transmitted back to the utility company is in units of £/$ and not in kWH? That seems very unintuitive. Why would it be done that way? Does each house have a different deal on their electric rate? If so, does the meter man have to come out and reprogram your meter if you strike a new deal with the power company? My electric bill shows how many kWH I used, times the dollar amount in my contract, and the resultant fee. If I had a special deal (which I don't think is possible, maybe a there's a price difference for business addresses), I'm sure my rate would be stored on the utility company's server, not on my meter, and they could adjust it from within an office somewhere remotely.

No I am talking UK smart meters and mainly key meters.

In the UK very few smart meters are used to collect bill data. ALL modern meters <15 years old are smart enabled. For whatever reason you normally get a guy come knock on the door and read the meter, Key meters are also fitted with a transceiver but the info and data is done via a smart key you push into the meter.

BUT
This isnt how it was designed to be used by now, all smart meters transmit your usage in KW/h and the idea I think was to have vans or whatever drive around an area and collect the data, any updating done via the equipment in the van (a bit like the courier systems). I have no idea why SMART meters are not used like the original intent.

How did I find out? Silicon Labs in the UK did a Leopard Gecko board with a transceiver addon at 868 MHz (its a form of this Kit I use for quads etc) it has 4-6Km range but is adjustable, they have updated the kit now but at the time they had software on there site (and still do) that allowed you to set up the boards as smart meters, this was the original intent on the chips (to be used for smart meters). Now if you put the dev kit near a smart meter (1/4 mile in our case) you see a stream of data every 2 mins! Its the pre amble and stuff looking for a receiver (the van). On the older meters because it wasnt intended to be used for 5 years or so it looks like NO ONE set the password the meter looks for from the original manufacture one. If you look your meter up you can get the default password, use one of the dev kits and you can talk to the meter!

It goes something like this........

Meter
Look I am here my number is XXXXXXX is anyone listening? then silence for 2 mins

Dev kit
Wait till you get the number and channel and answer yes listening (look on sil labs at the software it has alot of info) also the meter manufacture have alot of info) the meter then asks you for a pass code, I used the default and next thing I knew the dev kit lcd filled with meter data, not just that quarter info but rate per KW/h and just about everything else! No idea over there but in the UK if you press the buttons on a meter you get loads of screens of info, if you get a problem a man comes around and inserts a smart card to update the meter. But it can be done via the wireless route!

I might go take a pic of our meter see if its like the ones you have. With key meters they update via the terminal when you fill the key up, when you plug the key in it updates the meter. I have no idea why keymeters even have the wireless in them. Alot of modern meters <5 years have the wireless stuff but its switched off at the moment, some people who have had the 'man' out to there meter have also had the wireless side switched off. Like I say I have no knowledge how its done over there, but look on the net if your in the UK there is alot of info on how the meters were originally intended to be used, I still have no idea why they come read the meters when the tech has been there decades to do away with this! Most people have the meter read once a year and the rest of the time its estimated or you can phone in the readings or send a card off

 

[large_ghostman]

Until I get the new hose done some time in the next 10 - 20 years I am still living in my old 1974 14' x 70' partially fixed up trailer which is for eh most part like trying heat a parking lot in the winter and air condition a greenhouse in the summer.

Around her our remote read meters just send their ID number and KWH readings. All other adjustments to the bills are handled at the main office on the computer systems.

Depending on the meter it should still have the functionality built in, dosnt matter if they dont use it. this is one type I am talking about http://www.wireless-mag.com/images/CMS/2011/News/Iskraemeco---Smart-meter.jpg

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

No I am talking UK smart meters and mainly key meters.

In the UK very few smart meters are used to collect bill data. ALL modern meters <15 years old are smart enabled. For whatever reason you normally get a guy come knock on the door and read the meter, Key meters are also fitted with a transceiver but the info and data is done via a smart key you push into the meter.

BUT
This isnt how it was designed to be used by now, all smart meters transmit your usage in KW/h and the idea I think was to have vans or whatever drive around an area and collect the data, any updating done via the equipment in the van (a bit like the courier systems). I have no idea why SMART meters are not used like the original intent.

Sorry LG, but you appear to have "lost the plot"

SMART meters haven't been fitted for the last 15 years, in fact non-smart ones are still been fitted now.

They also don't work like you appear to think?, they use GSM technology and report usage back via txt messages.

As they simply report the actual power used it doesn't make any difference if you can 'hack' the internal settings, as they are only used for displaying to the customer what costs 'might' be, it doesn't affect what it reports.

You get a guy 'knock on the door to read the meter' simply because the vast majority of meters aren't 'smart' so can't be read remotely.

 

[large_ghostman]

Sorry LG, but you appear to have "lost the plot"

SMART meters haven't been fitted for the last 15 years, in fact non-smart ones are still been fitted now.

They also don't work like you appear to think?, they use GSM technology and report usage back via txt messages.

As they simply report the actual power used it doesn't make any difference if you can 'hack' the internal settings, as they are only used for displaying to the customer what costs 'might' be, it doesn't affect what it reports.

You get a guy 'knock on the door to read the meter' simply because the vast majority of meters aren't 'smart' so can't be read remotely.

Not the GSM type Nigel the older ones with wireless. The pic I posted is GSM I checked and is the wrong meter.
I will go look for the type I am talking about, they were designed for mesh networks

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Not the GSM type Nigel the older ones with wireless. The pic I posted is GSM I checked and is the wrong meter.
I will go look for the type I am talking about, they were designed for mesh networks

There are effectively zero of those about, and are not what is considered 'smart'.

 

[large_ghostman]

There are effectively zero of those about, and are not what is considered 'smart'.

There are loads in Devon and up here, might depend which supplier your with, I have no idea. They were the original smart meter and came after ones that were like grey boxs with a small wire antenna on, we had one of those before we moved

GSM wont be rolled out as the GSM operators are capping bandwidth, GSM modems are often refused connection now when you phone up to register a modem with the operator. I posted loads on that before as we couldnt get the GSM modem connected to a wind turbine registered with a mobile operator

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

GSM wont be rolled out as the GSM operators are capping bandwidth, GSM modems are often refused connection now when you phone up to register a modem with the operator. I posted loads on that before as we couldnt get the GSM modem connected to a wind turbine registered with a mobile operator

I don't see the slightest relevance between any supposed 'capping bandwidth' and SMART meters?, they only send a txt message in order to transfer the meter reading, so bandwidth use would be absolutely minute.

I'm also bemused by you having problems getting GSM modems to work, and indeed why on earth you would be ringing to 'register' one?. You simply get a PAYG SIM card (or a contract one if you wish) and stick it in a phone - it's as simple as that. I've just done two GiffGaff SIM cards for the M590 modem kit's I'm playing with (I used GiffGaff because you get free texts to other GiffGaff numbers , and also texts are cheap to other numbers). Once the card is in a phone, then you go to their website and enter the number on the documentation - and that's it - transfer the card to the modem, and it all works. I suspect you don't even need to place the SIM in a phone first, but I like to do it to make sure it works, and to transfer the number to another phone ready to dial the modem (just ring the other phone, it saves typing the number in).

I've done various SIM's in the same way, O2, Vodaphone, Tesco Mobile (I've got a Tesco Mobile SIM in my GPS tracker), Orange/EE.

SIM's are VERY, VERY widely used in all kinds of equipment, I've been involved in developing GSM projects before, and I'm involved again at the moment.

As for GSM SMART meters not going to be rolled out, it's a bit late for any such suggestion, as those are the ones that have been (and still are) been rolled out. We had a replacement meter fitted at work last year, and a guy had to come out and change it - as there was a problem with the SIM in it.

 

[large_ghostman]

The professional GSM modems are not phones, you have to register the equipment ID number with the phone company and until last year there was no problem, they are used on turbines for telemetry and allow data to be streamed in and out at will, most system have a linux machine inside and webserver the modem is connected constantly, the phone people no longer allow this as its considered tethering.

When I am next up at the site i will get the modem model. All sims not used in phones have to be registered or the phone people close the signal down.