Sensitive gate Triac Driving

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xyz9915

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Hello,

I am using Bt139 E series sensitive gate triac to directly turn on or off a motor using 89C2051 micro controller (circuit attached. The problem is that when triacs are triggered at medium-phase
angle and drive inductive loads, they generate heavy voltage peaks on the gate, which could damage the micro controller. In my opinion if I put a diode in series with gate resistor will protect the micro controller. Your suggestion is requested to fix this issue.
Note: I can not use optocoupler due to some reason.
 
Unless the micro power supply is somehow floating I don't see how you can have the micro, which is DC powered, connected directly to the AC mains. If not using an optocoupler then would a transformer coupling be ok?
 
Yes, you need to isolate the TRIAC from the micro, either with an optocoupler or transformer as Alec stated.
 
Unless the micro power supply is somehow floating I don't see how you can have the micro, which is DC powered, connected directly to the AC mains. If not using an optocoupler then would a transformer coupling be ok?


I think if I put a diode in series with gate resistor, this will protect the micro controller from heavy voltage peaks from the gate.

Furthermore, I mentioned that due to some reason opto-coupler or isolation transformer can not be used.
 
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Furthermore, I mentioned that due to some reason opto-coupler or isolation transformer can not be used.
Is this a homework project?

Who says you can't use an opto-coupler or transformer?
 
BT139 is named as a sensitive gate TRIAC, but some manufactures doesn't name it as a sensitive gate TRIAC because it needs more than 20mA trigger current in its last quadrant.

You must use opto isolator like MOC3021 series to drive the TRIAC so you don't have to worry about gate current that can be supplied by your uC & isolating issues.

Don't forget to add snubber circuitry on your design that will both protect your TRIAC & opto coupler.
 
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Few components used in this project to make it low cost. My question was that if i use diode to block voltage transients to protect micro controller is correct or not? please advice. I seen this technique in some circuits.


There is no isolation required.
 
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Hello there,


The reason for using any kind of isolating device (opto coupler, pulse transformer, line transformer, etc.) is to ensure that the user of the equipment does not come into direct contact with the line voltage even if something somewhat typical goes wrong with the equipment (the controller). For some failure modes this is just impossible, but for the more typical isolation of the parts of the circuit that the user can come into contact with is done with some sort of isolating scheme.

The point here is that for the correct operation of the unit isolation is not mandatory, it's only for the protection of the human user. But in cases where the isolation is not going to come in the form of a device like an opto coupler, a plastic potentiometer shaft is the next best thing. This is better than a metal shaft and plastic knob, as a plastic knob comes off too easy. The plastic shaft makes it impossible for the user to touch any electrical contact inside the case, so this is the recommendation when pure electrical isolation is not possible.

The triac control circuits can be driven off of a half wave rectified DC power supply, which allows a common connection between one terminal of the triac and one terminal of the DC power supply. This is probably done already, so the main problem appears to be some sort of spike on the triac gate.

The reason for this could be because the triac gate doesnt look like it is connected properly. The triac gate (sensitive or not) should have a resistor from the gate to main terminal 1 (terminal A1 in the supplied attachment in the first post in this thread). This resistor helps prevent false triggering and would also help with spikes. A typical value would be 1k, but lower values could be required down to probably 100 ohms. Yes this then requires more current drive from the driver part of the circuit.

There is also a snubber kind of circuit often connected across the output of the triac (A1 to A2). To find out the values of this circuit refer to the triac documentation or look for other circuits on the web. This is usually just a resistor in series with a capacitor.

So the choice of how to drive the triac (isolated or not) is totally up to the designer, but since protection of the human user is also a concern some means to electrically isolate the user from the circuit is always employed. Metal shaft potentiometers must be avoided when there is no other type of isolation in place.
If there are other kinds of controller parts such as switches, they too must be of a type that will not allow the user to contact any part of the circuit even in the event that the switch 'handle' breaks off. This could mean a specially mounted switch with a secondary handle mechanism that if broken does not affect the switch or allow user contact. A rotary switch with a plastic shaft could prove effective here.

To understand what you mean when you say to connect a diode, a drawing would help here, but with the gate resistor it probably wont be necessary.
 
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Thanks MrAl for understanding the main question I raised, as suggested by you, a resistor of 1K or less connected between gate and terminal A1 will fix the issue.

Thanks again.
 

If you're driving an inductive load, the snubber recommended by MrAl is a good idea. It will also help to squelch the spikes appearing at the processor output by absorbing a good chunk of the spike generated by the load's collapsing field. Do you know the approximate inductance and resistance of the load you're switching?
 
A general practical value for the snubber is 39 ohms+.01μF. However the resistance of motor will give you later.
 
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