So, what did happen to all that warmth?

[Pommie]

I guess you didn't read the climategate thread. https://www.electro-tech-online.com/threads/climategate-hide-the-decline.101095/

BTW, isn't this the worst winter you have had in the UK?

Mike.

 

[Thunderchild]

not really a couple of days of snow and the nation is crying, didn't they tell you that the brits are wimps ?

anyway its not just about increasing temperature but the total change in climate pattern which like I said makes it hard to grow food, no food = ???

 

[Pommie]

Well, as an expat of the UK, I know how it is there. However, I call foul when CO2 warming causes bad winters. Read the emails and tell me they are not a bunch of corrupt scientists.

Also, no food = good for planet.

Mike.

 

[Thunderchild]

no food = not so many people, but hey the planet don't give a toss about that, we are just one of the many species, people forget that we do not control, we are not all powerful, to nature we are just another animal, if it all goes tits up so what !

The earth was once in a state of global warming, nice hot weather, tropical plants even in britain (you know dinosaur times), then as the vegetation and animals absorbed the carbon in CO2 (carbon - C is a major make up of all life) the planet cooled as the trees and plants that had absorbed that carbon fossilized into..... fossil fuels, now what do dipstick humans go and do ? yes they come along pump and dig all that carbon back out and make it back into CO2 by burning it. the FACT is so simple I can't see how people just don't see it. but then being good at school and clever is not fashionable these days is it ? so while the population lul in self endulged ignorance and the goverment steer public opinion and rip people off the planet goes to pot. oh well just another animal will become exstinct, who cares !

 

[Pommie]

Not so many people = good place to live. I find it amazing that the only country on this planet that is trying to control population is China. We need to learn that if we keep producing more humans we will all die. We can reduce emissions by 50% but if there are double the number of humans they we shot ourselves in the foot.

BWT, when tropical plants were in UK what was the problem?

Mike.

 

[Thunderchild]

when tropical plants were in the UK there were no humans !

Yes population control is the first step, I personally am against this thing of handing out child benefit left right and centre (and thats me being nearly 27 and single and hoping to yet get married and maybe have children), Immigration to this country is another issue and those imigrants (particularly asians) don't waste time at having many children. After controlling child benefit I would control population growth end of. there certainly are too many of us, we have a world wide case of: "no more room at the inn !" and in the UK having children is big business for some

 

[Pommie]

So, why did the planet cool down from the last greenhouse phase?

Anyway, only important thing is to reduce the number of humans on the planet but for some reason the politicians think taxing them is the solution.

Mike.

 

[Thunderchild]

the planet cooled down because the trees absorbed the carbon died and got burried leading to their fossilization, christ didn't you read my previous post ! the carbon that is going into our ever rising levels of CO2 comes from trees and animals that have been dead millions of years and took that carbon out of the air.

Criky its no joke that simple concepts are most difficult to understand and get accepted !

 

[Pommie]

So, should we reduce the number of humans or not?

Mike.

 

[Thunderchild]

oh yes the populatrion needs to stop multiplying, as i said (in a previous post) there is physically no more room for the amount of people there are. its not just the physical space they live in but the space needed to supply the resources they needs (food, fuel, forest to convert the CO2 they make back to O2 and C in the form of wood growth)

 

[ke5frf]

the planet cooled down because the trees absorbed the carbon died and got burried leading to their fossilization, christ didn't you read my previous post ! the carbon that is going into our ever rising levels of CO2 comes from trees and animals that have been dead millions of years and took that carbon out of the air.

Criky its no joke that simple concepts are most difficult to understand and get accepted !

Simple concepts are sometimes WRONG.

Read the e-mails. A lot of Brits at East Anglia CRU are involved in the fraud. You have been scammed. Snake oil. CO2 is a harmless, necessary gas, not a pollutant.

 

[Thunderchild]

in the correct quantities its a required gas but too much holds more heat than we need, another basic concept people don't want to hear, why is it a yes or no thing for everyone ? we live on a planet that has a natural balance, we are altering that.

of course this goes against most peoples energy guzzling lives, for example, how cool is it to run around the house in t-shirts like it were summer during winter, small wonder people want the climate to get warmer, of course dressing for the season is below most people, my gas/electric bill is a fraction of some peoples but I (and the rest of my family) live quite comfortably.

 

[tcmtech]

Since when did everyone on the far side of the world become experts on what happens on my side of the world?

We have a massive land area and a tiny population on it. Our summers are cool and our springs come late and fall comes early.

If your so overcrowded and worried about the world getting warmer come here! We have jobs for everyone, space for about 10+ million more people, and you can almost run around all year long in your full winter gear if you want!
My local state government has a vast surplus of money and our local region is putting in clean AE power systems at an extraordinary rate which are now producing energy far in excess of what we need.

Come on over! We got jobs for everyone and land to spare! Power is cheap and food is plentiful too. Plus our educational systems are well rated as well!

But you will be expected to actually work a fair days effort for a fair days pay. Unfortunatly we are now starting to suspect that part may be why no one wants to come here?

 

[Thunderchild]

sounds like heaven to me mate, fair days work ? thats the least I'd expect, as i said Britain is populated by about 99 % wimps who don't know what work is even if employed

 

[ke5frf]

in the correct quantities its a required gas but too much holds more heat than we need, another basic concept people don't want to hear, why is it a yes or no thing for everyone ? we live on a planet that has a natural balance, we are altering that.

of course this goes against most peoples energy guzzling lives, for example, how cool is it to run around the house in t-shirts like it were summer during winter, small wonder people want the climate to get warmer, of course dressing for the season is below most people, my gas/electric bill is a fraction of some peoples but I (and the rest of my family) live quite comfortably.

Nobody ever said energy conservation isn't important.

There is no such thing as "correct quantities" of CO2. The concentration of atmospheric gases in our atmosphere is dynamic and has been so since the beginning of time. Many periods have seen higher concentrations that LAG temperature increase. In other words, other factors caused the temperature increase and released CO2 from the oceans. Ever seen a warm carbonated beverage fizz?

You have been sold a bill of goods. Think for yourself instead of letting the BBC do it for you.

 

[Thunderchild]

CO2 released from the ocean ? and what in the ocean releases CO2 ?

 

[ke5frf]

CO2 released from the ocean ? and what in the ocean releases CO2 ?

Bingo! Yes, the ocean is a tremendous HUGE "sink" (kind of like a heat sink but for gases and liquids instead of heat)...a BUFFER if you will for all atmospheric gases. When the weather is cold, CO2 gets absorbed by the oceans in greater concentrations. When the weather is warm, the CO2 is released.

Indeed, we have seen a warming cycle in the past 150 years, prior to that we had a cooling cycle called the Little Ice Age (LIA), and prior to that, we had a warm cycle called the Medieval Warm Period, another cool period before that, and a Roman Warm Period before that and so on.

In all cases the CO2 concentration went up. Granted, it is a higher degree of concentration now than then because of industrialization (and probably as much so because of deforestation)...However, there is no conclusive evidence that the CO2 causes warming. Real scientific evidence points to warming being natural and cyclical and the CO2 is a BYPRODUCT of warmth because the ocean sink releases the gas.

Obviously, there is scientific evidence that PART of the warming is anthropogenic...and it isn't conclusive that CO2 doesn't contribute. However, the degree of statistical certainty is NIL, yet politically and idealogically motivated scientists have plotted (read the e-mails) to cover up, hide the uncertainties, rewrite history and play down earlier warm periods, and falsify and skew statistical data in favor of showing warmer trends than really exist. The e-mails tell it all, and all the key players, American and British scientists, (Michael Mann, Phil Jones, Keith Briffa, William Connelly, Gavin Schmidt, James Hansen) etc are involved. Paleo-climatologists working with tree rings, their bread and butter, have used deceptive "tricks" to make their data seem more significant and trustworthy than it actually is. Other proxies are used but they are not as easy to calibrate and correlate and they also don't "line up" as convincingly with statistical manipulation to "erase" the earlier warm periods from paleo-history.

Without true statistical significance in the warm trend we are experiencing, or in historical "records", there is no way to ascertain with any certainty if it isn't "normal". But they don't want you to know that, or else their "consensus" would be exposed as the sham that it is.

Should we cut back petroleum dependency? Yes. Should we be looking for cleaner alternatives? Yes. But not outside of the natural advancement of technology. We don't want our economies crippled paying 5 times the current cost for clean energy technology that hasn't advanced far enough along to be economically feasible.

 

[Thunderchild]

well the CO2 has to come from somewhere in the first place, if CO2 stores warmth then once released surely it does not get cold again and go back into the ocean, it would have a runaway effect.

We do need to get away from fossil fuels if anything because we will soon run out. we need to reaslise that we can't use and chuck materials, the day will come that it will be cheaper to mine metals from landfill than it will be to get it from mines and so for all other natural resources.

 

[killivolt]

I couldn't get your phase/change link to work.

So, I found this one.

**broken link removed**

There is an animation bar that concludes in Phase Change. Water heat storage etc.


kv

 

[ke5frf]

"well the CO2 has to come from somewhere in the first place, if CO2 stores warmth then once released surely it does not get cold again and go back into the ocean, it would have a runaway effect."

Why not?