SSB Carrier Supression

[Sceadwian]

Oh my god, ruuuuuuuuuuuuuuunnnnnnnn!!!!!!
Just kidding =)

 

[Space Varmint]

Hi, this is my first post, i just found this site and it looks very interesting.In reguards to SSB you might want to google Bob Heil K9EID he has done lots of work with SSB lately among other things.

Wow! Will take a look. I just wasted a whole weekend fixing my power wiring. I'm building a new amp with a an old junk box MRF454 and I set the bias a little high and it fried my wires! I was feeding power through some RG-174U and they melted short.

Anyway, look at this awesome App note I found from Motorola:

https://www.electro-tech-online.com/custompdfs/2009/04/an762rev0.pdf

I'm still playing with the bias. So far I've only gotten about 20 watts out. I think I need to run a power diode straight to ground but I'm feeding it with an LM317T.

 

[Space Varmint]

Using loads more components than required, to give a vastly inferior performance, isn't 'distinguishing' - at least not in any way you would like



Nothing wrong with food cans, that's the ONLY thing he's done that makes any sense.



But his 'design' isn't efficient, it's using hundreds more components than required, and yet gives poor performance, and much lower efficiency.

There are thousands of hams all over the world transmitting with low powers, either homemade, or commercial - and it's unlikely any are as poor as his.

I'm still unsure if he's serious or just a troll? - so far I've given him the benefit of the doubt, but his ideas are so bad (and so wrong) I can't help thinking it's a deliberate wind up?.

You see? This is where you and 'guru totally lack any understanding about SSB audio. Trust me...I have built a few. Gain distribution is of paramount importance. It is nothing at all like amplifying music. I have tried to explain this to you.

First of all, in order to receive a 5 watt station from the other side of the world, you want most of your gain in the IF stages or you will get feedback. Now you got this very minute signal to amplify (audio) and Joe's alligator station down the street comes breaking through on the same frequency. This is a very broad range in decibels. Therefore you cannot just amplify to hearts content in a minimum amount of stages even with a fairly good AGC. You will experience some clipping in at least one or more stages. If you want intelligibility in the received SSB signal, then even the most minuscule amount of clipping is intolerable or you will strain to understand what the transmitter operator is saying. It must be clean clean Class A all the way! Gain distribution is the key.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

You see? This is where you and 'guru totally lack any understanding about SSB audio. Trust me...I have built a few. Gain distribution is of paramount importance. It is nothing at all like amplifying music. I have tried to explain this to you.

No, you have spouted the same rubbish as are again now, it was completely wrong before, and is completely wrong now

Audiguru has no idea about radio hams and SSB quality audio, I'm a ham so I do - you don't need, don't want (and couldn't use) HiFi quality high bandwidth audio. Even the MUCH higher quality used for FM by amateurs falls far, far, short of what AG expects.

I've also built SSB receivers in the past, but did it properly - I never finished building my transceiver (as I couldn't be bothered to learn morse, and never have) - but the receiver section was designed and built as the receiver part of a transceiver, and just needed the transmitter parts adding to it. An elderly G3 friend of mine bought it off me, and as far as I'm aware completed the transmitter section, but I've no idea what he used.

 

[Space Varmint]

Oh you are such a smarty.
Hehe

Hey Johnny! This guy heckles me all the time (Nigel). He must be jealous or something. I can receive 2 watt stations from the other side of the world....what more do you want? You can please some of the people some of the time......you know the rest.

Anyway, he didn't think I would be stupid enough to post my latest & greatest design did he? I'll help people as much as possible but I got too many years into my receiver designs to just give away my last one. So he hasn't even seen it. So what the hell is he talking about?

I put up an earlier design which has many similarities and would be an extensive learning module for people who want to design a receiver. But I would expect someone to do their own mods and get into the various stages to learn what each one does anyway. You could take the one I put up and modify it into a very fine receiver. That's basically what I did with my last one. Now I did put up my audio. I don't think the very final version, but close. Now, being a ham of 36 years, I have been to AES and HRO and heard many a radio. I've owned some Kenwoods and Knight & Heathkit etc. and honestly, I really enjoy the sound of my receiver. It is very pleasant to listen to and it pulls in that DX.

 

[Space Varmint]

No, you have spouted the same rubbish as are again now, it was completely wrong before, and is completely wrong now

Audiguru has no idea about radio hams and SSB quality audio, I'm a ham so I do - you don't need, don't want (and couldn't use) HiFi quality high bandwidth audio. Even the MUCH higher quality used for FM by amateurs falls far, far, short of what AG expects.

I've also built SSB receivers in the past, but did it properly - I never finished building my transceiver (as I couldn't be bothered to learn morse, and never have) - but the receiver section was designed and built as the receiver part of a transceiver, and just needed the transmitter parts adding to it. An elderly G3 friend of mine bought it off me, and as far as I'm aware completed the transmitter section, but I've no idea what he used.

Nah, what it was, was such a horrible mess that you couldn't sell it for any decent price but he was smart. He new the worth of the parts you had in it so he junked it out and got the parts off it.

 

[Sceadwian]

Nigel you don't need to know morse anymore =) Just program your pic's to code/decode it for you =) receiving is a little tricky but not too bad. Sending is a piece of cake, it's just a translation table.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Nigel you don't need to know morse anymore =) Just program your pic's to code/decode it for you =) receiving is a little tricky but not too bad. Sending is a piece of cake, it's just a translation table.

I know you don't now, but you used to have to be able to send and receive morse (at a certain speed) in order to get a class I licence - and you had to go and sit an exam, usually at a seaside marine facility. Doing it electronically wasn't an option, and as you say though, sending it is incredibly simple.

But I stopped been an active ham long before the rules changed, so only ever held a G8 (class II) licence.

 

[Space Varmint]

Nigel you don't need to know morse anymore =) Just program your pic's to code/decode it for you =) receiving is a little tricky but not too bad. Sending is a piece of cake, it's just a translation table.

They've only had the "No Code Tech" license for 35 years or so.

Nigel's alright. He just likes to bash me for some reason. Hey Nigel, I fight back. I still want to meet you in the ring....well, maybe.....black belt did you say? What art? I'm a 10th dan in mean

 

[Sceadwian]

Honestly Varmint the only reason I haven't chimed in on this thread is I don't know squat about RF transmitter construction =)

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

They've only had the "No Code Tech" license for 35 years or so.

The USA is only one of many countries in the world, you need to consider that.

Nigel's alright. He just likes to bash me for some reason. Hey Nigel, I fight back. I still want to meet you in the ring....well, maybe.....black belt did you say? What art? I'm a 10th dan in mean

Ju Jitsu, feel free to come over any time you like, 3rd Dan in Ju Jitsu, Blue Belt in Karate, and not bad at Origami either! (I even taught Origami on a Martial Art's coaching course ).

 

[Sceadwian]

I know Nigel, I'm horrible about being 'worldly' I've lived within a 20 mile radius of where I am now since I was born. I'd probably go into culture shock just from visiting another state =\

 

[Leftyretro]

Hey, Am I back on??? Test test 1,2.....Ahhhhh test

Welcome back SV, so how was the ride on the aliens's craft?

Lefty
WA6TKD

 

[audioguru]

We mentioned that the receiver had an extremely high amount of audio gain (120dB?) but without any negative feedback then the distortion is extremely high.
The receiver also had a very high amount of attenuation instead of negative feedback so the distortion and the noise is very high.
The audio filters had cutoff frequencies that are completely wrong.

The received sound is like ducks quacking instead of like voices. One transmission sounded like a cow.

My grandmother's shortwave radio (Grundig?) sounded almost perfect. It received from all over the world. No distortion and low noise.

 

[Sceadwian]

Space Varmint I would love to hear some .wav clips of your receiver in action. I have a little Grundig handheld but we have a lot of public service repeaters within 1000 feet of me so only really selective receivers perform well here. Honestly I wouldn't want to even think about doing HAM stuff in my immediate area.

 

[audioguru]

Space Varmint I would love to hear some .wav clips of your receiver in action. I have a little Grundig handheld but we have a lot of public service repeaters within 1000 feet of me so only really selective receivers perform well here. Honestly I wouldn't want to even think about doing HAM stuff in my immediate area.

The ducks sounds were months ago in another thread. The cow is in this thread but its link doesn't work anymore.
Maybe the Space Vomit will post the latest sounds.

 

[Sceadwian]

Please Varmint post some clips for me.

 

[kchriste]

Honestly Varmint the only reason I haven't chimed in on this thread is I don't know squat about RF transmitter construction =)

What difference would that make?

 

[Space Varmint]

Origami huh there Nigel? So you fight paper birds?....;lol

I'll post some more clips after I get my amp right. The only thing is even when I do an in-line recording I still get some white noise that is not there in real life. Even at the highest sampling rate I get it. I think it is something to do with the DACs on this cheap Acer Laptop.

 

[Sceadwian]

I thought the same thing Space Varmint, I know Origami but not that kind =) Origami is apparently a martial arts style as well as a paper folding art.