Starting PCB DESIGN

[jpanhalt]

Weird thread))) Anyway, starting to learn PCB design with Eagle is not what I would have done. Eagle is way to stupidly-organized, and the interface is a mess, almost impossible to act intuitively. Check out DesignSpark or some other free tools. DipTrace has a free version as well.

Welcome to ETO.

Interesting comment. How much time did you spend using or trying to use Eagle?

From my perspective, Eagle is quite intuitive (what's more intuitive than "cut and paste") and very powerful as a design tool. Can you give any examples of something you can do with DesignSpark or DipTrace that you cannot do with Eagle?

John

 

[Bengineer]

Eagle is a great tool, because of the scripts and community and I think I can do the same and maybe more with Eagle, but it's not easy, no offense)))) I don't like the way I have to work there. That's personal impression. With DipTrace or Designspark I read tutorial occasionally, searching for some topic. With EAGLE I have to go through all the materials... But Eagle has diff. pair routing tool, which aforementioned packages lack.

 

[DerStrom8]

Weird thread))) Anyway, starting to learn PCB design with Eagle is not what I would have done. Eagle is way to stupidly-organized, and the interface is a mess, almost impossible to act intuitively. Check out DesignSpark or some other free tools. DipTrace has a free version as well.

I have found Eagle to be more intuitive, better laid-out, and to have more extensive libraries/support documentation than DIPTrace, KiCAD, PCB123, and any other software I've tried. I was going to try DS but they refused to send me an account confirmation email (I tried 3 times!), so I gave up.

Anyway, that's not what this thread is about, so let's leave it at that

 

[JonSea]

No doubt the Eagle interface is different than anything you've used. But with an hour or two of practice, it makes sense.

 

[William Salinas]

The usable board area is limited to 100 x 80 mm (4 x 3.2 inches). This may be the limitation of EAGLE Light Edition.

 

[Mikebits]

I have found Eagle to be more intuitive, better laid-out, and to have more extensive libraries/support documentation than DIPTrace, KiCAD, PCB123, and any other software I've tried. I was going to try DS but they refused to send me an account confirmation email (I tried 3 times!), so I gave up.

Anyway, that's not what this thread is about, so let's leave it at that

One main problem with Eagle is that much of the available libraries are created by users who do not take the time to check their symbols. End result if you use the Eagle repository, you will likely have many errors in your board. Sure you can go back and double check all the symbols used, but this sort of is a waste of time. I would rather have a reliable library.

 

[jpanhalt]

One main problem with Eagle is that much of the available libraries are created by users who do not take the time to check their symbols. End result if you use the Eagle repository, you will likely have many errors in your board.

Can you give a couple of examples?

I have never had that problem with CadSoft-supplied components and have been using Eagle from v. 3.x. Are you referring just to user provided components that are not reviewed by CadSoft? The threshold for uploading user files to Eagle is probably pretty low. While those files may be helpful, and I am sure they are provided with that intent, they may also include specific modifications for that particular user. It's buyer beware.

Alternatively, some Eagle components may give errors in DRC, but those are typically due to settings, such as clearances, that are not appropriate for such components.

John

 

[DerStrom8]

One main problem with Eagle is that much of the available libraries are created by users who do not take the time to check their symbols. End result if you use the Eagle repository, you will likely have many errors in your board. Sure you can go back and double check all the symbols used, but this sort of is a waste of time. I would rather have a reliable library.

Hi Mike, great to have you back!

The built-in libraries are not third-party, and are very good (Lots of components, accurate symbols and footprints, etc). Other than that, when I used Eagle (a lot has changed since I last posted in this thread) I would make my own libraries and double- or triple-check to ensure the library components were accurate.

Now that I have access to Altium through my job, I use that almost exclusively. It's incredibly powerful, but also incredibly expensive.

Matt

 

[JonSea]

I was comparing SMD packages in Eagle and found a significant error. I don't remember which package it was, but it was in the Maxim or Microchip library. Say it was an SSOP package. Most of the family was ok, but one package for the part with a metric pitch basis had been laid out using imperial approximations of the pitch. After about ten pads, the error in those approximations resulted in a misalignment of half a pad width.

I've posted about it somewhere before with pictures showing the error.

 

[DerStrom8]

I was comparing SMD packages in Eagle and found a significant error. I don't remember which package it was, but it was in the Maxim or Microchip library. Say it was an SSOP package. Most of the family was ok, but one package for the part with a metric pitch basis had been laid out using imperial approximations of the pitch. After about ten pads, the error in those approximations resulted in a misalignment of half a pad width.

I've posted about it somewhere before with pictures showing the error.

I've come across that in third-party Altium libraries.

The safest choice in any PCB design software is to create your own libraries.

Matt

 

[Mikebits]

JP, I was referring to the online user database which seems to be where many people go. I have used Eagle (In fact wrote a tutorial on here which was lost on the Dbase crash), and I just don't like it, I don't like the way the interface is, it seems it was not designed with the engineer in mind, it did not do things I came to expect in schematic capture programs. And before you ask, I can not give examples as it was long ago, and I just don't remember, maybe they improved it since then. I recently purchased Multisim premium, and I find I hate it less than Eagle but Multisim is not the greatest either, and at $300./year, I will be looking for a better package. The last professional quality design tool I used was Mentor Graphics, and that was great, but it is way beyond my price range. I would love to try Altium.
Speaking of Altium, I always read post where teenagers are using Altium, how the heck are they getting Altium? You would think the company that makes this package could keep it from being pirated.

 

[Mikebits]

Hi Mike, great to have you back!

Matt

Nice to be back, have missed you guys I think I might be around as I am back in the electronics game, as my health made Industrial fire and rescue too difficult, but it was fun when I could. I lived the dream for awhile and I got to drive fire engines

 

[Mikebits]

As I think about my thoughts on Eagle, I think I just realized something. Once you have used a great CAD tool like mentor or Altium, you become spoiled, and it becomes hard to use anything else without a grumble and grimace. So with that said, I am just biased and kinda comparing my first love So for what ever package you use and if it gets the job done, that is the bottom line.

 

[DerStrom8]

I would love to try Altium.
Speaking of Altium, I always read post where teenagers are using Altium, how the heck are they getting Altium? You would think the company that makes this package could keep it from being pirated.

Altium is very powerful, but also very expensive. It's not uncommon for it to cost >$6k for one seat. Anything can be pirated these days, though generally pirated copies of software come with malware, missing dll files that cause it to not work properly, no professional support, etc. Many questions I have seen regarding expensive software are not "How do we do so-and-so in this software". They're generally more like "Why isn't so-and-so working", to which the answer is obvious: You're using a pirated copy that is missing some critical files that you would otherwise have if you obtained the software legitimately.

As I think about my thoughts on Eagle, I think I just realized something. Once you have used a great CAD tool like mentor or Altium, you become spoiled, and it becomes hard to use anything else without a grumble and grimace. So with that said, I am just biased and kinda comparing my first love So for what ever package you use and if it gets the job done, that is the bottom line.

This is very true. I am fortunate to have access to Altium through work, and it has definitely spoiled me. I'd have to learn Eagle all over again if I ever had to design something using it instead of Altium. I'm so used to all the bells and whistles that make the design process so much easier in Altium, I'd have to remember how to do it all over again in Eagle.