I'd say just the opposite, in most cases. Once someone has picked a belief system, it's often next to impossible to get them to change their minds regardless of the evidence presented.
A sundial is more accurate than a broken clock, and has the added bonus that you know *when* it's right. Looking at a broken clock to try to determine the current time does *not* work, not even twice a day, unless you have another time reference to compare it to. The clock might say 3:15 but when you look at it, it tells you nothing about what the current time really is.
Were you done addressing the actual point, then?
Oh, gee...you want it to actually tell the correct time, too? Some people are just never satisfied. Besides, sundials are a pain in the tush what with the earth wobling and spinning a revolving and being yanked around by the moon. And, then there's those darn pesky clouds and night and the occasional solar eclipse to dick around with. Who cares what time it really is, anyway (as if we actually had a way to know).
Why are you trying to turn this into a religious issue?Hmmmmmm...Sounds to me quite a lot like what people are going for when they pray. Of course, they have a, "real" intermediary (God) who makes it all possible. I did a post here related to that (which I coined, the x-factor) quite some time ago (it was not very seriously received).
https://www.electro-tech-online.com/threads/the-x-factor.36547/#post285873
Aint it amazing how casually and capriciously we pick/reject our fantasies?
So, you all but concede that your broken clock analogy is BS, then. Just so we’re clear on that.Oh, gee...you want it to actually tell the correct time, too? Some people are just never satisfied. Besides, sundials are a pain in the tush what with the earth wobling and spinning a revolving and being yanked around by the moon. And, then there's those darn pesky clouds and night and the occasional solar eclipse to dick around with. Who cares what time it really is, anyway (as if we actually had a way to know).
Good, then please leave.I'd have to say the answer is pretty obviously, "yes" (and quite some time ago, too).Were you done addressing the actual point, then?
Why are you trying to turn this into a religious issue?
So, you all but concede that your broken clock analogy is BS, then. Just so we’re clear on that.
Good, then please leave.
Generalizing just a bit much, don’t you think?I'm not trying to make anything a religious issue. I am, however, trying to make the point that peoples' perceptions of what's real and practical and what's poppycock is not restricted to the "perpetual motion dreamers". When someone has a religios fervor we tend to refer to them as, "Pope" or "your holiness" or "brother so-and-so" or "elder", etc. When they profess to know of secrets of physics that defy the classical perception of them, they are referred to as "nuts" and "crackpots" and "loonies".
Never heard that one, myself. I think anybody can be either one.As the old saying goes, "Poor people are crazy...rich people are merely eccentric".
Apparently you’ve never encountered apologists… and I really don’t see how putting up a façade to make a fantasy seem realistic is a good thing. To me, that just seems to be another level of delusion and dishonesty.I believe that I have a more honest viewpoint than most since I believe they are all nuts. But, by and large, the religious community has a weaker case since it truly is based on fantasy where the dreamers at least try to put up a facade of achievable physics.
A perception of usefulness is totally useless.You kind of missed the point. The clock points out that there can at least be a percepton of usefulness or accuracy, even in the absurd.
No, just no.Sort of like the x-factor. Like the way people are able to see the absurdity of one fantastic concept and not that of another
No, religion is completely off topic.This argument is fair game for this thread.
And yet you’re defending it.I was not he one who either introduced the unatainable Tesla Switch or one who was ragging on those who believe that such things can be done...
It is. But not so open that my brain has fallen out.if ya can but just open your mind to the full specturm possibilities of science and physics.
Generalizing just a bit much, don’t you think?
No where in this process do the terms "open minded" or "benefit of the doubt" arise. It's not the way of the scientific world and has no place in the discussion. period.
Except you forgot the part where old ideas are revisited as new information becomes available and old theories and postulates are re-evaluated. In your world of science, Newton would be king and Einstien would not have bothered to think about any of what he did. What's more, a lot of people would be a lot happier, smug in their knowledge that classical physics was immutable.
At no point do I say that credence should be given to the claims of the perpetual motion dreamers...just that consideration should be given to their ideas before rejecting them on the basis of known physical laws and, keeping open the possibility that new informatilon may require new thoughts (ie: perhaps "known physical laws" are not quite so well known as we may think).
So, I guess, I'm saying that I patently disagree with your conclusion that keeping an open mind (or even allowing some doubt) is unacceptable behavior for a person of science.
More empty rhetoric and faulty assumptions from the village idiot.…
Actually, I agree that an open mind is vital to science. However, that does not mean that an idea should be entertained when there is already a mountain of experimental evidence to show that the idea will not work.
crashsite, do you mean to say that basically, you’re playing Devil’s Advocate?
I think we should define the term "open minded". It gets misused a lot, I believe. Perhaps even by me. If it means "considers things for critical evaluation" then I will agree that scientists need to be "open minded". If it means "accepts what others say as the truth" then NFW.
I’m glad that you understand that.Being "open minded" doesn't mean you have to agree with anything. It just means that you need to give fair and honest consideration to all views and theories.
I’m glad that you understand that.
Now you should try to understand that, if I bash something, it’s usually because I’ve already given it a fair and honest consideration (and concluded it’s a load of @#$%).
Being "open minded" doesn't mean you have to agree with anything. It just means that you need to give fair and honest consideration to all views and theories. Once you've done that, you are free to accept or reject them as you see fit...but, keeping open the possibility that new information may require revisiting them in the future.
In fact, being open minded often means NOT agreeing with something even when pressures may be brought to bear on you to agree.
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