Thugs scared off by pocket knife

Harvey, you're looking at things with the typical logic of a forum poster, not with the instantaneous thought of a person ACTUALLY encountering such a situation.

I usually shoot down the bullets coming at me using the pistol. I never mind at knives, silly!

Sceadwian said:

Harvey, you're looking at things with the typical logic of a forum poster, not with the instantaneous thought of a person ACTUALLY encountering such a situation.

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Maybe so, I don't live in NY, so seldom a concern around here . I avoid being caught in such a situation, where I might become a victim. I don't let people get in close enough to do me harm, I'm ready for it, and it shows. If someone displays a weapon, you have to expect that he plans on using it.

Originally Posted by HiTech **broken link removed**
Ok then, where does the line get drawn when a situation transitions from self-defense to self-offense?

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Nigel Goodwin said:

If they don't attack you, then there's no need to defend yourself - pretty simple really.

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Actually I was referring more to during an altercation, where a critical point is reached to decide to employ deadly force.... the point of no return.

Mickster said:

What would happen if they banned tobacco?
Where would all that revenue have to come from next?
Perhaps the anti-smoking supporters would wish they had kept their mouth shut, when it starts to affect their own pocket.....

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That thought isn't any different than using gambling or lottery proceeds to benefit senior citizens... or when a church group holds private gambling parties to raise money for a project. IMHO it's still a vice or sin money; it's the questionable method or pretense on how the money was collected and the associated vice is justified because the proceeds are supposedly put to good use for society. Legalized gambling is a perfect example: proceeds $$ benefit local municipalities according to contracts/laws, and provides jobs for many. Gambling addiction help is provided to those who request it. Sounds like a win-win situation for all, other than the shmucks wasting their earnings/savings that perpetuate that vice. It's a dirty, unethical business much the same as the tobacco industry is and illegal narcotics sales.

Sceadwian said:

Harvey, you're looking at things with the typical logic of a forum poster, not with the instantaneous thought of a person ACTUALLY encountering such a situation.

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Exactly what logic does a non forum poster apply when sorting the threat between an assailant with a gun versus a knife? With the exception of some analogy you seem to have between a cut hurting but if you haven't been shot you can't logically know if a bullet ripping through your guts hurts more?

I have been cut and stabbed once and to my simple forum poster way of thinking I tend to fear the guy with a gun considerably more than the guy with a knife.

Damn, I was surprised as I thought Rochester NY was quieter but it seems they have no shortage of shootings in Rochester NY.

Ron

That's only when you're thinking about it reloadron, not in a moment of forced decisions making, I'm not talking about conscious fear or wariness, I'm talking about instant knee jerk gut response, you can't have an opinion on that only a responce, and it's very difficult to measure as putting people in that kind of position for psycology studies is frown upon nowdays.

Sceadwian said:

That's only when you're thinking about it reloadron, not in a moment of forced decisions making, I'm not talking about conscious fear or wariness, I'm talking about instant knee jerk gut response, you can't have an opinion on that only a responce, and it's very difficult to measure as putting people in that kind of position for psycology studies is frown upon nowdays.

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My instant knee jerk is a gun scares the hell out of me unless I am the one holding it.

Ron

No it's not, that's your conscious responce on an Internet forum =) To judge the actual psychological values is much much more complicated.

While living in the Philippines I was on a public Victory Liner bus. We were in route to Manila when the bus got into the cross fire between the PI military and the NPA terrorist group. The bus had to stop and I will never forget nearly pissing myself hearing the sound of an AK rifle. Our bus caught a few rounds and I can assure you that a gun is much more scary than a knife.

I'll admit that I've never been threatened with any weapon, but have been in a few fights over the years. Never been one to wait for the other guy to actually take a swing at me. Really don't know how to explain it, maybe I just get impatient, or the adrenalin, but I know it's going to happen anyway, might as well get it over with. Works pretty well most of the time, but still get a few scrapes and bruises almost every time. I doubt I'd be an other way, when faced with a weapon. Maybe raising large dogs has a little to do with it, since you can't fear them, nor can you let them know that they can hurt you, always have to be stronger. It's not any easy thing, they play rough, and don't realize you aren't built like them. Guess Rottweiler teeth are a dangerous weapon, he rarely drew blood, nothing serious (little brother wasn't so quick though...).

You really can't know, until you've been in the situation. I'm kind of aggressive, stay cool and focused. If the weapon is drawn, but not immediately put to use, I'm sure if I can reach it, I'd try. Never been to NY, maybe they rob people differently, little more polite. Down here, they beat, stab, and shoot people, regardless of how the victim reacts to being robbed.

Apparently no one actually reads my posts...
I said the site of a gun or a knife, not rounds being fired or an actual immanent stabbing. Warfare, with true immanent danger regardless of it's source isn't even closely related to having the likeness of an object weather functional or not in your field of vision suddenly in an otherwise ordinary day. As a visceral reaction more fear is going to be developed by a the site of a knife rather than a gun in the population at large unless the person has intimate experience with being shot at even if you're not the immediate target. We're not talking specifics here, we're talking the mass general psychological response. More people overall have experience with puncture of the skin and slicing from sharp objects than from penetration of a high speed round fired from an object that looks like a gun. We may conciously know that a gun is something to fear, but the innate fear of a blade is much higher in the general population. I garuntee nearly 100% of people are going to say the gun is worse though, because forum post are not innate unconscious responses.

because forum post are not innate unconscious responses.

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I have read your post, and well quite frankly I just do not agree with your position. For one thing, I do not think the fear of knives is innate, rather it is learned though direct experience such as our first knife boo boo. Through empirical knowledge we learn that a firearm is a much greater threat and is therefore much more frightening as death is a very real possibility. If someone pulls a blade on me, I will go into a defensive posture, if it a gun, I will start crapping myself. I know where you are coming from but I just do not agree.

Sceadwian said:

Apparently no one actually reads my posts...

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What did you say? What are you talking about here? You posted something that is of interest to us? Oh, sorry, I was distracted from reading other's replies.

Mikebits said:

I have read your post, and well quite frankly I just do not agree with your position. For one thing, I do not think the fear of knives is innate, rather it is learned though direct experience such as our first knife boo boo. Through empirical knowledge we learn that a firearm is a much greater threat and is therefore much more frightening as death is a very real possibility. If someone pulls a blade on me, I will go into a defensive posture, if it a gun, I will start crapping myself. I know where you are coming from but I just do not agree.

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I agree with you, he's posting complete rubbish - presumably just his personal paranoia - certainly not how almost everyone else would be affected.


From a Martial arts point of view (aside from been no where near in either case), a gun is a long range weapon (so step in), a knife is a short range weapon (so step away). Effective knife throwing isn't a concern, it's mostly made up for the films. If the guy with the gun if too far away to step in, them you're totally stuffed - which is one reason why a gun is far more scarey.

Mikebits said:

While living in the Philippines I was on a public Victory Liner bus. We were in route to Manila when the bus got into the cross fire between the PI military and the NPA terrorist group. The bus had to stop and I will never forget nearly pissing myself hearing the sound of an AK rifle. Our bus caught a few rounds and I can assure you that a gun is much more scary than a knife.

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OMG, I haven't thought about that ride in years. That was a trip when I would ride between Manila and Cubi Point. Before the volcano ate Cubi and Subic. You stirred some memories with mention of the Victory Liner.

@ Sceadwian, I did read your post and several times. Like a few others I just tend not to agree with the fear factor thing as to what to naturally fear. No big deal and let's hope none of us here ever have to worry about it in real life.

Ron

Reloadron said:

OMG, I haven't thought about that ride in years. That was a trip when I would ride between Manila and Cubi Point. Before the volcano ate Cubi and Subic. You stirred some memories with mention of the Victory Liner.

@ Sceadwian, I did read your post and several times. Like a few others I just tend not to agree with the fear factor thing as to what to naturally fear. No big deal and let's hope none of us here ever have to worry about it in real life.

Ron

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I was in the PI from 80 to 83... Good times

I was stationed at Subic Bay, SRF (Ship repair Facility). And will you ever forget the trike rides, or the Jeetney?

**broken link removed**

And for those that don't know, the Jeetney was the main source of public transportation. People would cram into the back, sorta like a poor mans MTS (mass transit system).

Sceadwian said:

Apparently no one actually reads my posts...
I said the site of a gun or a knife, not rounds being fired or an actual immanent stabbing. Warfare, with true immanent danger regardless of it's source isn't even closely related to having the likeness of an object weather functional or not in your field of vision suddenly in an otherwise ordinary day. As a visceral reaction more fear is going to be developed by a the site of a knife rather than a gun in the population at large unless the person has intimate experience with being shot at even if you're not the immediate target. We're not talking specifics here, we're talking the mass general psychological response. More people overall have experience with puncture of the skin and slicing from sharp objects than from penetration of a high speed round fired from an object that looks like a gun. We may conciously know that a gun is something to fear, but the innate fear of a blade is much higher in the general population. I garuntee nearly 100% of people are going to say the gun is worse though, because forum post are not innate unconscious responses.

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I read, I just don't see in myself. I've been around knives, tools, and sharp pointy things all my life. I understand how they work, and how to use the safely, the advantages, and limitations. Seeing a blade, isn't much of a threat, unless it's close enough to do some damage. I've had dozens of cuts and punctures, and I know they heal just fine. It's not the knife, but the person holding it. Pain isn't a big deal, it goes away eventually, it's just an alarm your body gives use to alert you to damage that needs attention. Just the sight of a shiny blade, just doesn't do much for me, but I do get a little nervous when someone is playing around with it, when the are close enough to cut me.

Your view is a little extreme, but I guess it depends on what sort of environment you live in. Perhaps, knives are only found in the kitchen and dining hall, accidents are rare in your world. In mine, I use a knife throughout the day (some very long ones this week, cigarette tax increase coming up), accidents are rare, but have seen some bad ones at work. I don't get cut from the knife, but there are many other sharp things, not seen, the get me occasionally. I stop working long enough to wrap some tape around it, I continue working.

When I've ridden to town on my motorbike and am wearing protective clothing a knife wouldn't scare me at all. I'd just say, "try and stab me" and whack them over the head with my helmet.

Hero999 said:

When I've ridden to town on my motorbike and am wearing protective clothing a knife wouldn't scare me at all. I'd just say, "try and stab me" and whack them over the head with my helmet.

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I've no problem with the "smacking with the helmet" (it's a perfectly valid technique), but I've got a BIG problem with saying "try and stab me" - if you said that to me, you'd be filleted!