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Hello,

I tried a coil with the secondary over the primary yesterday. However, did not find much difference in the light output with my other design - primary over secondary. With both the two types of winding, my 3W 220V LED bulb remained on for about 4+ hours fairly with the same brightness from a 1.2V 2100mAh NiMH battery. The light was bright enough to be used a night lamp.

While tweaking the wires from the toroid on my breadboard, I noticed that at some stage (could not determine which particular point it was exactly) the light became quite bright with my combination of TIP31 and BD139 in parallel. I am yet to buy the TIP35C.

My prime target is to get moderate light output from the 3w led bulb for 3-4 hours running on 1.5 volt general purpose AA cell. I have ordered another about 1" (OD) ferrite toroid with permeability of 10,000 and AL of 12 uH per turn square and core material: "W" for this purpose. I will make it with Sec over Pri and try to use TIP35C and see the results - if there is any improvement. However, please advise if the 14T of the primary should be wound just beside the 4T of the primary or on top of it before I wind the 350T secondary on top of these two primary coils.

There is another observation: I attached a 1000uF/25V cap across the battery input of the JT circuit and tried to measure the input current with my DMM with 10A scale DC. It still went out of range!! Any more ideas on this will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks and regards,
Raj


Hello again,

[1]
I fear you did not understand me correctly or i didnt explain the relationship between the physical positioning of the primary and secondary so let me try to expound that a little more first.
Originally you had shown a drawing where the primary turns were wound on one side of the core and the secondary was wound on the other side of the core, so that the two windings never touched at all. This means the two windings did not overlap at all in any area, but more basically that means that there was separation distance ALONG THE CORE DIAMETER, or to put it another way, the two cores were placed in entirely different sectors of the toroid. The distance between windings along the core diameter is the most important distance, more so than the distance between vertical distance between windings when they are wound one on top of the other. So it was never a question of if the primary went on TOP of the secondary or the secondary went on TOP of the primary, it was only a question of if the two windings overlapped, and thus making the distance between winding (along the diameter) zero or very small and thus they are wound in the same sectors and actually take up the whole diameter, both of them. There may be a small advantage to placing the secondary right on the core and primary wound over that, but in this low power design it probably wont matter much.
You'll notice that in physical inductor equations the length is in the denominator, so as the length increases the inductance goes down. That length is the "magnetic path" length and so windings that are actually separated ALONG THE LENGTH of the magnetic path will have less coupling than those that are not.

[2]
It sounds like your main problem is the drive method. You should probably look into the line of transistors made by Zetex (Diodes Inc) if you want to use bipolars for a low voltage application like this.

[3]
Your run time target goal does not seem reasonable, sorry to say. That is because of the limited energy available from a single AA cell. Even an alkaline may only be able to put out 2 amps for 1 hour at most, and assuming the voltage did not fall (which it really does) the max energy output would be 2*1.5=3 watt hours, which means even with perfect components and really ideal battery you would only see 1 hour of run time. This means you need to change something drastically if you want 4 hours run time. Also sorry to say, but the ONLY way to improve this is to add more batteries or a bigger battery or a different type of battery which would be bigger also.

[4]
Not sure how you are measuring this. If you have the cap across the input of the board and your meter external to that, it should work.

Summary:
1. Wind primary and secondary one on top of the other.
2. Look for bipolars made by Zetex.
3. Use bigger battery or more batteries.
4. Draw picture of your measuring set up and post here.
 
Last edited:
Please find the circuit attached....

Thanks.
Circuit.jpg
 
Please find the circuit attached....

Thanks.View attachment 99827

To measure the current, you need to insert the ampmeter in series between the power source and the load. You need to break the red wire and put the meter there.

As you have it shown, you'll just measure the short circuit current of the battery. Which, even with a AA cell, could easily overload the meter.
 
Please find the circuit attached....

Thanks.View attachment 99827

Hi,

Yes as Chris nicely pointed out in the post just before this one, when you measure current you need to connect the meter in SERIES with the load, not in parallel as you have it shown in your diagram (nice diagram BTW, very clear).
So connect the meter in series with the load (only) and try again.
 
Extremely sorry....That was a GROSS MISTAKE on my part in doing the diagram. I should have connected the DMM inseries with the JT circuit I/P. However, practically I did connect the meter in series and got out of range reading on 10A scale!!! Thanks.
 
Hello, I have some good news to share with you all here!

Made some modifications in the Primary windings with 40T of 26 SWG going to the Collector and 20T of 30 SWG going to the Base through 1K fixed resistance and 1K pot. Connected TIP35C (it cost me INR 40 ~ US$0.60) and there was sufficient light with one AA cell - full charged for 5 long hours. The current draw was 100 mA. I used the 3E25 toroid with 300+ secondary turns with 30 SWG.

My other toroid with "W" material is yet to arrive and I will be testing it finally before giving the project some shape. Noted your advice to use a MOSFET. However, I have never worked with MOSFETs before and do not know how to connect it to my JT. Also, which particular part will be ideal - I have no idea at all. Further, I do not want to use something which is very high priced - it should be below INR 50 (~US$0.75).
 
Hello, I need some further clarifications on current measurement for my JT circuit.

Since, my DMM is not giving accurate results when measuring the current keeping it in series with the battery and the JT circuit, I have devised a way as an alternate solution applying my Physics lessons from school. As per the below diagram, I have connected ten 1 ohm 0.25 watt resistances in parallel (so the equivalent resistance being 0.1 ohms). I am measuring the voltage drop across it and using the Ohms Law, computing the (V/R) values, I can get the current drawn by my JT circuit. For example, if the Voltage drop across my 'shunt' is: 0.06 volt, then the Current draw by the circuit is: (.06/.1)= 0.6 Amps or 600 mA. Please advise if this is a correct approach or not. Here is the diagram for your reference:

Current measurement.jpg
 
Hi again,

Congrats on your getting it to run with sufficient light as per post #46. 100ma times 1.5v means the light is getting about 0.150 watts or 150mw of power. If that's bright enough though that's ok then.

On your measurement scheme, it looks like you have it right. If you measure 0.050v across 0.100 ohms that's 0.05/0.1=500ma as you know.
When you do it with a resistor, you can use a resistance of 1 percent of the load resistance to keep voltage drop low, but 5 percent would not be unreasonable either. So with 1.5v and 100ma load, that's 15 ohms for the load, and 5 percent of that is 0.75 ohms but 1 ohm would not be too bad either for an estimate like this. The 0.1 ohm resistance would only show 10mv which may not be as good to read on some DVM's.

Are you really getting 600ma now or was that just an example of Ohm's Law?
If you are, you should test the run time again as it will probably be less time, if the original cicuit was really 100ma that is.
Quick table of rough estimates of run time using a new AA alkaline cell:
100ma: 20 hours
200ma: 10 hours
300ma: 6.7 hours
400ma: 6 hours
500ma: 4 hours
600ma: 3.3 hours
See how that compares with what you actually get.
 
Hello there,

Honestly speaking, there was enough light in my (12 feet x 10 feet x 14 feet) room which helped me to see things fairly well, even I could see the time on the wall clock at a distance of about 7-8 feet. Now, regarding electrical measurements, my battery voltage was 1.3 volts and the current flow through the 0.1 ohm shunt was .04 Amps or 40 mA. So, the power consumed was .052 Watts or 52 milli watts!!! I could run the circuit for 5 hrs continuously with little change in the light output and then disconnected it because I had to be away from home with some other work. I don't know how this is working but this is a true fact. I am yet to experiment with my ordered Toroid.
 
Hi All, Hope you are fine. :)
I am back again after a gap with another question. I would need your assistance with the newer (I think stronger) toroid which I have procured for my Joule Thief project in order to make it stronger and efficient than the present one using the 3E25 /25" OD - toroid. Please refer to the attached datasheet and advise if this would give more brightness to the 3W LED bulb from 1.5 volt AA cell. I would also be glad to get some idea on the wire gauge selection (SWG), no. of turns for the Primary, Feedback and Secondary windings etc. Thanks.

There is an important correction which I must make pertaining to my earlier post above:

"my battery voltage was 1.3 volts and the current flow through the 0.1 ohm shunt was .04 Amps or 40 mA. So, the power consumed was .052 Watts or 52 milli watts!!! I could run the circuit for 5 hrs continuously with little change in the light output and then disconnected it because ....."

I made another test by keeping the battery voltage to 1.3 volts but changed the shunt resistance to 1 ohms and made no other change to the JT circuit. My multimeter then recorded 155 mA. So, I deduced that the JT consumed around 203 mW or .203 W of power. The power source was a 2000 mAh fully charged NiMH cell. So, I was supplying 2.6 Wh of power to the circuit. Computing the values we get around 9 hrs of light at an efficiency of 70%.

Hence, my figures quoted earlier were not accurate and I am sorry for that.
 

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Hi,

What circuit are you using with that toroid? That matters a lot.

You could also look up the permeability rather than the AL value, and the max flux density.
 
Hi,

Yes, but all they give is the AL value. I'll have to look into it a bit more.
Basically what you do is figure out if you have enough primary turns, then go from there. This one will be harder to figure out though because there is feedback. The feedback alters the frequency.

So in the end it is probably best to try a little experimentation.
First wind some tape around the core, then wind some turns, then test the inductance and if it saturates at say 20kHz with the required input voltage. Watch for high voltage spikes too which could damage the transistor.
 
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