US Mains Voltages and Current

Here a link to a slide show on the Lincoln site: https://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-...ages/wind-tower.aspx?WT.mc_id=flash_windtower

The photos of transporting the blades to the site through the city are impressive.

John

jpanhalt said:

Here a link to a slide show on the Lincoln site: https://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-...ages/wind-tower.aspx?WT.mc_id=flash_windtower

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It would have been nice to see some financials on the investment. I'll bet the investment for that whole thing was on the order of $10-$20 million or so and they said it will produce about 10% of their manufacturing site's electricity. I wonder how long it will take to pay off. Of course, one could also see the windows in the back at the top, so no doubt they'll use it to impress customers and bigwigs who visit the site...

squishy36 said:

It would have been nice to see some financials on the investment. I'll bet the investment for that whole thing was on the order of $10-$20 million or so and they said it will produce about 10% of their manufacturing site's electricity. I wonder how long it will take to pay off. Of course, one could also see the windows in the back at the top, so no doubt they'll use it to impress customers and bigwigs who visit the site...

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Somewhere they posted the financials. Roughly the total cost was 6 Million USD with Lincoln Electric putting up about 4.5 million and the US Government putting up 1.5 million. They forecast a turn around on their investment in less than 10 years. I know the financials are out there on the web. A Google of Lincoln Electric wind turbine should yield countless hits. The local paper (Cleveland Plain Dealer) ran several stories on it.

Ron

Reloadron said:

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Nothing on ground level but a gentle breeze but it keeps turning way up there. I found the max rotational speed of 14 RPM to be impressive. When we start getting good November winds I'll have to check it out.
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Yeah it's wonderful technology... The wind blows, it turns, we get free electricity.

And they are relaxing to stand under, look up and hear that slow "Shoooft Shoooft Shoooft" of the blade tips passing.

As for investment, didn't your fist link say 5.9 million?

That's the big problem, all investment is done at the most inefficient levels, ie Govt contracts, public service studies, import duties and transportation from Europe etc etc.

It's a fantastic technology if you can make on site cheap and stick them up, not so good once Govt starts along with all the wasted costs and taxpayer money blown. Well no Govt is ever good at handling money, they just waste it. If they were good with money they would not need to collect tax. I often wonder how a big business can make lots of profit and pay dividends to their people, but all govts leak money out their butt and then demand tax money from their citizens to pay for all the waste and mis-management... Sorry off-topic I know.

Hi Mr RB, Yeah, 5.9 or 6.0 million, what's a few bucks here or there? The numbers vary a little depending on what you read.

Your comments regarding government funding for private industries like this project are most welcome Additionally I don't see them as off topic at all. My view is quite simple, if Lincoln Electric wants to put up a wind turbine as an investment then fine with me. However, I don't see where US tax dollars (my money) should be used as what amounts to corporate welfare. Considering the debt the US Government is carrying this is especially true. We have too much bloat and too much of this type spending.

Maybe this weekend if the weather is good I can get out and get some pictures. While taking pictures in our facility is prohibited I may be able to use a roof top outside. I have a good 300mm lens that would likely work well. I need to check on that. The wife has been wanting to see this thing anyway.

Ron

That THING is really impressive. These guys are trying: **broken link removed**

Reloadron said:

Hi Mr RB, Yeah, 5.9 or 6.0 million, what's a few bucks here or there?
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Whoops! My fault, I posted the 5.9 mill at roughly the same time you posted the 6.0 mill so i didn't see your post. Sorry if it looked like I was correcting you, I was actually responding to Squishy36 as he said 10 to 20 mill (as a question).

I hear you on the Govt/Private funding thing. I reckon if the Govt use your tax dollars to pay for 25% of that windmill, you should get 25% of it's electricity for free from now on...

Or better still, the Govt can make them onsite for about half the price, saving $$ and also employing Americans locally, then half the electricity can be free to the local community, and half to pay back the loan. Then in 10 years all the electricity will be free for your community.

That BlueWaterWind site looks impressive. I'm still a bit dubious about big investment wind as they seem to waste a lot of money.... I think what we need are small farmer types doing things on a budget and refining the wind $ per watt to the absolute bone, ie making plant on site (using low cost travelling labour etc as needed), and cutting out a lot of cost inefficiencies that creep into big dollar projects like surveys, subsidies, office workers, land rental, imports, kickbacks, tendered construction by the mob, you know what I mean. (grin)

They reckon without mainenance these things grind to a halt in 3years !

So they better have something built into the debt debacle

I liked the soothing music on BlueWaterWind.

Actually here in Cleveland (this could only happen in Cleveland) they are thinking about placing these things offshore in Lake Erie (like the lake isn't eerie enough). Naturally the local newspaper prints stories on this stuff. Now the group promoting this thinking are a collection of self proclaimed Wind Advocates which is fine. When the paper runs stories on anything wind they blog the hell out of the articles.

The big problem is they see clips like the one shown in BlueWaterWind and picture this setting in Lake Erie. None of these people have any engineering background. Politicians, housewives, I think a few homeless people and god knows who else comprise this group. I personally fear the politicians more than the others.

They are proposing 1 MW units about 5 to 10 miles offshore. Lake Erie is a shallow lake. Matter of fact here in the US it is the shallowest of the five great lakes. Five miles offshore the depth is 60 feet (a little over 18 meters) deep. Not much the engineering marvel... but... every winter the lake freezes over. How frozen? I can drive out on the lake in my truck and drill holes in the ice to catch fish for dinner. So you need to go down 60 feet and sink pylons into the lake bed with tons of concrete for each wind turbine. This can be done at considerable cost till the subject of the lake freezing enters which throws new problems into the design and engineering.

It would take over 1200 of these windmills to produce what the Perry Nuclear Power Plant produces 24/7 on any given day sans maintenance shutdowns. That being just up the road. This is why large power companies won't seriously invest in wind power other than a novelty.

@ tytower, regular scheduled maintenance is part of any power generating operation I would think.

Ron

Ron, I am with you on wind turbines, I think. I think the proposals for Lake Erie are silly.

As an additional factor, while some may find the low frequency noise soothing, many others find it completely annoying. There are solid medical studies to support the adverse effects of low frequency noise on people's psycology. Perry has a good safety record. The Canadian designed D20 reactors (Candu, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candu_reactor) also have a great safety record. Unfortunately, GE has enormous political connections in our government.

John

jpanhalt said:

Ron, I am with you on wind turbines, I think. I think the proposals for Lake Erie are silly.

As an additional factor, while some may find the low frequency noise soothing, many others find it completely annoying. There are solid medical studies to support the adverse effects of low frequency noise on people's psycology. Perry has a good safety record. The Canadian designed D20 reactors (Candu, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candu_reactor) also have a great safety record. Unfortunately, GE has enormous political connections in our government.

John

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Well this is going to go off topic but what the hell. I work on the North side of Euclid avenue at the old TRW facility, turned Argo Tech and now divested into several companies. Our main plant is the old Rockwell Automation facility. I work for what is now B&W (Babcock Wilcox Corporation). Hard to explain but when my main company moved we remained on the old property. I am right below the large water tank tower. The Lincoln turbine is directly North of us by maybe 1/2 mile if that.

As I mentioned, the maximum speed of that turbine is about 14 RPM. At my distance I can't hear it. Maybe this weekend I'll drag the wife out there. I have no clue how close you can get, not that it is hard to see.

Yes, Perry has a very good safety record. The Perry nuclear power plant like almost all nuclear power plants in the US was early 1970s technology. The recent events in Japan really cast a bad shadow over nuclear power and thus provided everyone anti nuclear a great spring board. The GE manufactured reactors in Japan actually did exactly what they were supposed to do. Those 1970s systems performed flawless as to initiating a SCRAM of the control rods when seismic activity was detected. The problem was the 30 plus foot of mud and seawater in the subsequent tsunami that caused things to go really wrong. Nobody ever anticipated a 30 foot wall of water and mud moving inland that far. That crippled the fate of the diesel backup generators and cooling. It was a downhill slide from there.

Years and years have passed without applications for new nuclear reactors for power generation. Finally there is starting to be a demand. Ariva of France is an industry leader in the business plus a few US companies. I would like to see the jobs here in the US.

Ron