Used antifreeze (Ethylene Glycol Base) processing. Anyone know much about it?

[shortbus=]

In other words, TCMworld.

 

[tcmtech]

In other words, TCMworld.

Pfff. Please, we both know its a universe.

Don't downplay my stuff just because you don't have your own and we both know it. You're on my thread contributing nothing relevant to the topic beyond weak attempts to play down my life based on unfounded imaginations on your part .... so yea, there's yours right there.

 

[large_ghostman]

Try not to get personal, debating is one thing but personal attacks are not really on.

TBH TCM doing his thing is his business, i dont agree with it at all but i except some people wont change no matter what you show them. Its better to provide facts and information for those who are receptive and dont waste time changing closed minds, having said that i do have the following philosophy, TC you are correct there is limits and it isnt my job to dictate what those are. But trust me if you lived next door to me i would speak to you first if you crossed the line, but only the once.

What you do is upto you, but dont get caught crossing lines because some things boil down simple right and wrong, you know the difference i am sure of that, so try doing whats right and not whats easy or benefits you best.

I think we have done with this, its been answered fully. from here it will just slide into nonsense, there is no sensible debate left in it, if the evidence was there to back up TCM side i would have found it or he would of provided it. So i think its safe to say..............

EG is better to buy new, unless you want the challenge and can handle the waste, but recovery for profit is about scale, HUGE scale and is mainly done to prevent or rather lower waste. But on a tiny scale in a lab, it is a challenge to get it clean! I did think of trying it but i doubt i could get upto 80% even with some the glass ware i have access to. If i had a column that good it could strip out EG to 95% (53 theoretical plates!) I would make 99.99% ethanol in a single run instead.

 

[tcmtech]

TBH TCM doing his thing is his business, i dont agree with it at all but i except some people wont change no matter what you show them. Its better to provide facts and information for those who are receptive and dont waste time changing closed minds, having said that i do have the following philosophy, TC you are correct there is limits and it isnt my job to dictate what those are. But trust me if you lived next door to me i would speak to you first if you crossed the line, but only the once.

Exactly. You have shown me exactly nothing so far to support your side despite claiming its irrefutable right. I however have shown you both links to what I believe and why plus links to the very laws of my state. What more proof do you need on my end that I am complying with what I see as real and true only to have you tell me it doesn't count because you think it doesn't.

That's not my side denying anything for any reasons whatsoever let alone unsubstantiatable personal opinion.

What you do is upto you, but dont get caught crossing lines because some things boil down simple right and wrong, you know the difference i am sure of that, so try doing whats right and not whats easy or benefits you best.

I am doing what I see as right by what rules and procedures I see as being best regarding what I have to work with. There are very few things in life that only have one single way to be done. Just like with water filtration.

How many ways can you make water clean? Many, and which one is best in your situation depends on what resources you have available to you to work with. For you chemical may be the most effective way to go but for me I have huge quantities of near free energy to work with so that's where my favored processes will operate from.

I think we have done with this, its been answered fully. from here it will just slide into nonsense, there is no sensible debate left in it, if the evidence was there to back up TCM side i would have found it or he would of provided it. So i think its safe to say..............

Then you are obviously ignoring the whole second side of the debate on this if you can't find a single thing, especially since I have given multiple links that are easily used to expand your research into why so many like me have huge problems with the views of those like you. Blind wilful want to not look at and learn the other side does not make it not exist.
To me that mentality says that you suspect there may be something real to it that will undermine your beliefs (so you deny it exists and belittle those who do know it and can defend their positions and take yours apart with it) and right now you cant handle the thought of it possibly proving your wrong. That's how blind dogmatic religious devotion, not real impartial scientific process works.

But I get it. I was there once in my life myself and making that willful step to look at the other persons views and reasoning is hard but until you can argue the other persons side as well or better than you can your own you don't actually know the truth of either side properly or sufficiently to make claims for or against either about anything.

EG is better to buy new, unless you want the challenge and can handle the waste, but recovery for profit is about scale, HUGE scale and is mainly done to prevent or rather lower waste. But on a tiny scale in a lab, it is a challenge to get it clean! I did think of trying it but i doubt i could get upto 80% even with some the glass ware i have access to. If i had a column that good it could strip out EG to 95% (53 theoretical plates!) I would make 99.99% ethanol in a single run instead.

I never said I am looking at it entirely for profit. At this point its largely a hobby experiment for personal purposes to see what I can do with the stuff to make it useful again. More academic than anything, hence the looking for more info on how the process that interests me works so I have a better idea of where to start from which means that at this point I could care less if I never sell a drop of it let alone if I can get it to a high purity, of which for what I would be doing I don't need.
Dewatered and stripped of 90+% of its additives and gunk is more than good enough for my intended needs at this stage of experimentation. If I need it higher then I can improve on and re run the process under tighter operating conditions.

In a way its very much like how my boilers and everything that is related to them came to be. A experiment to see what I could learn to do and how well I could make it work. (first experiments were pretty rough but proved promising) And just like with you here I dealt with detractors, that in their views saw it all as a huge waste of time and effort, yet I went ahead with it any way and proved that they didn't know near as much about what they thought they did for the justifications they had.

Everything else that came from it was just icing on the cake so to speak. A hobby experiment that today has saved me around $40 - $50K US dollars in heating costs over the last 17 years plus given me huge fun and valuable and ever expanding knowledge and experiences for it that has now lead me up to the antifreeze processing concept!

A concept that if it does pan out at all I will likely do as I have done with everything that went before it and expand on its possibilities too in whatever way life take me with it simply because I like to do things useful with stuff other consider to be worthless. I'm a recycler by heart so I try to put old junk to good use and if I can profit from it through either financial cost avoidance or even gain while doing it then it was worth it for me.

After all, you make soap and other common low cost things and use and sell them, despite the fact countless others make them and in quantities far exceeding your own and for prices you can afford too, so why exactly do you peruse it anyway?

Because you can!

 

[DerStrom8]

TCM & Shortbus, you both need to cut out the personal attacks. You're both guilty of it and you both know it. If you want to keep contributing to this site, you'd better learn to play nice.

 

[large_ghostman]

After all, you make soap and other common low cost things and use and sell them, despite the fact countless others make them and in quantities far exceeding your own and for prices you can afford too, so why exactly do you peruse it anyway?

Because you can!

Alot wrong with this, i didnt read all the post but this bit caught my eye. Much of what i make soap wise i can honestly say no one else makes, most bulk makers use SLS or other chemicals that a proportion of people are sensitive too, I do complete ranges of cold process soap that are 100% natural. I am also waiting to be certified for a body wash, the reason we are waiting is because it contains water. Normally any body care product that contains water has to have a antimicrobial added, the product we are having certified uses a 100% natural antimicrobial.

Its a first for anyone, people think things like some spices etc are antimicrobial, and many are, but few pass the microbe test for cosmetics in doses low enough not to taint the product, this is why when we get it passed it will be utterly unique in the cosmetic world. Its bad enough taking me on in the environmental science area, but honestly cosmetics etc i can guarantee you know less than 1% of what i do or why i do it. I have a business partner well known on this site, i wont mention who it is as we keep the two things separate.

It took a very long time explaining a small fraction of the business to them, trust me you have no idea about the industry or the side we are involved in. You go on you tube and it looks really easy, but many are not compliant or have serious flaws. We have a registered business and fully comply in a specialist area. As to why i do it...... Its not because I can, its because i need to help keep a roof over 3 peoples heads and body care products and the science side of it is something i am exceptionally good at.

Its not what i would be doing if i could choose to do anything, its something i do because i have a talent for it and can pays the bills with it. Actually our business is a good example of where we differ, i spent untold hours learning the legal side of what i do, i made sure i comply 100% with EVERY rule and law, both here and now there in the USA. We were supposed to be selling there by now, but i noticed some key differences in the rules, sure at our size i could of ignored them and just played dumb if caught out.

But i didnt, instead i spoke with my business partner and we have delayed until i can comply with the rules, one of them being shelf life. I miss the target for this by 48 hours! So we built a environment chamber and replicate the mean conditions for each area we want to sell in, then i tweak each formulae until they work for that environment. What we make is artisan and bespoke, it isnt designed for the majority but for the few. Sure loads of people make soap and many companies make it, but if you have a specific need then thats where we come in.

I also use the lab for other things, but your right predominately we make soap/body-care stuff, i dont mind the sneer like tone at all. I have a neighbor with a teenage daughter who has been plagued with psoriasis her entire life, a really bad form of it. I have made a rage of products entirely for her and her body chemistry, she has kept her dermatologist in the loop all the way and slowly she started to get better. Actually i dont charge her because she couldnt afford what it costs, she pays what she can and it covers materials. But seeing her get confidence back and going back to school again (she left because of bullying) is worth it to me.

So again try not to make assumptions, you tend to make them based on your own compass and we dont share the same one. There is another member on here i am trying to help, its taking a while to look into there problem, i am sure they think i have forgotten them, but i havnt. I am also 100% sure we can help them with a tailored product, so when you say i make soap you are correct, but to many people i do alot more than that. But yes i do it for the money and because i am good at it and not because its my first love, its not. But it is what i am supposed to be doing with my skill set.

 

[large_ghostman]

I never said I am looking at it entirely for profit. At this point its largely a hobby experiment for personal purposes to see what I can do with the stuff to make it useful again. More academic than anything, hence the looking for more info on how the process that interests me works so I have a better idea of where to start from which means that at this point I could care less if I never sell a drop of it let alone if I can get it to a high purity, of which for what I would be doing I don't need.
Dewatered and stripped of 90+% of its additives and gunk is more than good enough for my intended needs at this stage of experimentation. If I need it higher then I can improve on and re run the process under tighter operating conditions.

Thats nonsense, read what you said it was for, you wanted to supply coolantphiles with EG, Now the way you described them was exactly like audiophiles, so dont try and kid me 90% is good enough for them because it isnt. Not when they could bypass your toxic brew and buy 99% stuff alot cheaper bypassing you. The truth is you read wikipedia and watched a you tube video (one that wasnt actually relevant to your situation BTW), and decided you could make money recycling EG.

Turn off the digger now and throw the keys away, your hole is more than deep enough.

Guys that was my last post here in this post, i am trying to learn when to walk away, i think maybe i have slightly overshot it with this post, sorry for that.

 

[tcmtech]

So again try not to make assumptions, you tend to make them based on your own compass and we dont share the same one.

Yet that's exactly what you have been doing to me the whole time and over your wildey imagined - what ifs and whatevers - over things you know nothing about regarding my actual action or intent.
The more of the picture I try to fl in, so you have some idea what I am doing and going for, the worse you deny that its real or matters while at the same time filling in more and more of what's not here with your imagined and negative assumptions based fantasies.

You say I am wrong, so I say prove it because I want to see your own personal views based on your own personal claimed reference materials, and then you go nowhere with any proof. At least I am trying to cater to you by filling in the theories and whatever else I can only to have you poo poo that for ridiculous nonsense as well.

Thats nonsense, read what you said it was for, you wanted to supply coolantphiles with EG, Now the way you described them was exactly like audiophiles, so dont try and kid me 90% is good enough for them because it isnt. Not when they could bypass your toxic brew and buy 99% stuff alot cheaper bypassing you. The truth is you read wikipedia and watched a you tube video (one that wasnt actually relevant to your situation BTW), and decided you could make money recycling EG.

Where did I say any of that as you are claiming? Again, you reading things way off from what I am talking about and filling the blanks with your wild imaginations does not make your reality and claims real and true. Post #3 is quite clear about the what and why parts so where does all the other wild speculation and accusations of what people and anyones intentions are become justified on your part?

You do experiments to learn new things and find better ways to use resources and so do I and a lot of others I know so why are we not on the same page with the basic concepts of discovery and thought exercise refinement here?

Wasn't that what these sort of forums were once about rather than one side forever making wild false superiority based exaggerated assumptions about everyone and everything they simply don't like while at the same denying that the other person or persons is after something far different than they are being claimed to be after?

Why can't I and or any people I know want some basic level distilled Ethylene Glycol to experiment with? What does their wants have to do with being anything whatsoever beyond simply curious to run their own experiments how they wish to do so with what they wish to use?

Why do you think they need your or anyone else's blessings and their work to be done your way to your standards when you have no clue what they are doing and why or to what actual end?

Its their lives and they get to run them as they see fit and if they want to toss me a few dollars for helping them out that's their and my right to do the transactions based on whatever we are dealing with. If not, so what business is it of yours what any of us do or do not do on our side of the planet if we are adhering to our own established rules and regulations as we see and understand them to apply?

 

[shortbus=]

Wasn't that what these sort of forums were once about rather than one side forever making wild false superiority based exaggerated assumptions about everyone and everything they simply don't like while at the same denying that the other person or persons is after something far different than they are being claimed to be after?

Do you ever read what you say in most of your posts? The above describes you to a T or is it a TCM?

Why can't I and or any people I know want some basic level distilled Ethylene Glycol to experiment with?

No problem with doing that. But most people wouldn't start out with "100s" of gallons.

 

[tcmtech]

Do you ever read what you say in most of your posts? The above describes you to a T or is it a TCM?

Prove it. Every post i have dismissed someone see claims I gave solid justifications for including links where I was told the don't count because of being form sources XYZ and not because their actual content was lacking. When asked to clarify I clarify and it up to the reader to take it for what it worth and not what they chose to ignore or falsely read into it.

After all , when you and others questioned my local laws who posted links to them? ME! Nobody else so in effect I called myself out on my own local regulations and then stood up and said that I do my best to adhere to them as they fit and are enforced or not.

Yet when I have asked anyone else for links to support their claims or over anything what have I gotten so far? NOTHING AT ALL BUT EXCUSES AND CLOWNING TAUNTS for why their own proofs against me don't matter, even when I fully delaired I would read them anyway!

So yes, If everyone else accusing me of things I have not actually said or did, not bringing anything to the table whatsoever, is proof I am the bad guy with nothing to back myself I am all too happy to take that title.

No problem with doing that. But most people wouldn't start out with "100s" of gallons.

Yes, but as you know, I am not most people and I already have around 200 - 250 gallons on hand I need to repurpose any way so for me there's not much difference in building a distillation rig that can do a few gallons a day Vs 100+ Especially when I have all the parts to build a big one.

That, and how many electronics threads have I participated in where I mentioned that for what I do in life very few circuits and devices I deal with work on anything less than a few 10's to hundreds volts and or 10's to 100's of amps or more.

That's how I play. I play big because that's where life is most interesting and challenging for me and, unlike most people, I have the tools and resources on hand to do it at that level.

When you have nothing but your bare hands everything big looks too heavy to deal with. But when you have a forklift you look for excuses to get a bigger forklift! I'm the guy with the bigger forklift just looking for really big things to pick up!

 

[large_ghostman]

Prove it. Every post i have dismissed someone see claims I gave solid justifications for including links where I was told the don't count because of being form sources XYZ and not because their actual content was lacking.

The nonsense you post is not peer reviewed, i didnt mention the content (except the first video) because i asked for peer reviewed scientific sources, not some random website with a view. Its not unreasonable to ask for creditable sources to back up claims.

Actually i asked for any source from a top 100 journal, but ok lets settle for top 200 journals. If your websites are correct then there will be papers to back them, i even offered to go get the full paper from any abstract reference you provided. How many times have you yourself mentioned random websites and wiki etc as not being reliable? The offer still stands, if you want a serious debate use a serious source. But honestly you have gone from 100's of gallons to a few small experiments, so there isnt really any debate,

Go back and without editing your posts, look at what you said. If you feel you can justify the things you said on pollution and it all being a conspiracy etc, then kindly post a peer reviewed paper to back that up.
I know you dont believe in over unity, so how would you feel if i declared it to be true and posted links to websites that back that up? There are many sites that do indeed spout the virtues of magic over unity machines, but would i be taken seriously? NO i wouldnt because the fact is the sites like that are just random nonsense not proof.

Dont post technical scientific principles and back then up with nonsense, there are many journals and any perspectives. If any of what you said had proof you would easily find material in a journal to back it up, the instant you have to drop the bar to random websites you might as well join the OU guys credibility wise.

I have posted climate material before in a thread with you, i quickly learnt it wasnt worth the time to track down, read and download peer reviewed papers to debate my side, not when all that is offered to rebuke it is low quality material from non credible sites. I do like debate as its a chance to learn, i am proven wrong on some sites where people know of research i am unaware of, the moment they prove my view is wrong i concede, it isnt about winning or loosing its about learning.

I dont mind being wrong at all, that is the entire point of science and it evolves daily. Debating science can produce really useful threads, having had two tries at doing this with you i wont bother again. You take things too personally, it isnt personal its simply taking a stand point and drilling down into the data to see which position is currently correct. But overall its your attitude to waste and your responsibility to everyone else with what you do with that waste, you dont own your land you are simply a steward for it. Start to act like others share the same planet and you have no devine right to do what you want regardless of the consequences.

I made it clear making mistakes is normal, hence the smoking thing. But knowingly doing harm to OUR environment is not a right you actually have, as far as i am aware no one has exempted you from normal human responsibility. Please stop acting and talking like you have some kind of god given right to do as you please regardless of what is right or wrong, try and use your skills to improve things and advance knowledge, stop taking the path that benefits you at the expense of others in the future. And that really is my final post here, sure your going to want the last say, so please go ahead and have it. Few truly intelligent people will pay much attention to it.

 

[tcmtech]

The nonsense you post is not peer reviewed, i didnt mention the content (except the first video) because i asked for peer reviewed scientific sources, not some random website with a view. Its not unreasonable to ask for creditable sources to back up claims.

I thought you were leaving and also to point out, so far you have brought absolutely nothing of any kind of proof of anything to bare but personal opinion and irrelevant excuses and accusations.

Heck, you admit you don't even read everything I post so what does that say about your commitment to this?

I am looking at both sides and adjusting my views of reality as new and relevant data is presented by both but unfortunately in my life study of the subject your side is producing very little anything that isn't old narrow spectrum and proven to be false or inaccurate or highly subjective while ignoring loads of other parameters shortly after it hits the public where it can be peer reviewed.

Its always CO2 CO2 CO2 and more CO2 and it always assumed to be man made CO2 and everything every where it getting worse and it all our fault 100% of the time no matter what and nothing else matter or is relevant even when it shows up on your front door and hits you in the face with something good.

No serious looks at water vapor, no looks at solar energy levels over time, no looks at geological and geothermal influences and changes, no looks at geo magnetic field weakening and shifts that are letting more solar energy in different spectrums hit the surface of the planet, no looks a the positive gains we make, no looks at what gains warmer winters give us, no looks at the benifits of the planets present greening up tick, no looks at what modern farming practices are helping with, no looks at how we as a society automatically adapt to new situations and evolve our social structures to fit into the literal landscape of any locations when they do change.
And above all no looks at how all of those thing other than CO2 add up and work in the system as a whole. Lots of weak dismissals but nothing much else.

You wanted to go back to discussing the topic of the the thread yet here you are not and still going on about something you yourself refuse to look at both sides of for very petty reasons. If you think you are so right you can ignore everything that everyone says goes counter to your views you're not doing yourself or real science any good. Its not science but blind faith religion and that rarely ever goes anywhere good when applied to scientific views nd real world workings.

So moving on, either discuss the topic I brought up and the process I am looking at and show me its realistic weak points and limitations as to why what is shown in the one reference video is not what it claims and to why I cant scale it up to run at 50 - 100x that rate or quit posting. Energy efficiency is irrelevant to the topic for me so that's not worth discussing or pointing out.

Its my experiment and presently I am not interested in doing it your way for a number of reasons and that's all there is to it.

 

[shortbus=]

Its my experiment and presently I am not interested in doing it your way for a number of reasons and that's all there is to it

Then why ask the question at all in the forum????? I know you didn't get the pats on the back and attaboy you were hoping for, but you did get the controversy you long for and thrive on. You'll never change.

 

[large_ghostman]

Its always CO2 CO2 CO2 and more CO2 and it always assumed to be man made CO2

Wrong again, CO2 is actually easy to lock up and use, modern techniques are extremely cheap and can increase crop production by 73%. No that isnt letting it into the air, there are much better ways to capture and use it, i am a big fan of CO2 especially when combined with Hydrogen .

Your stuck in old news, do some modern reading on environmental issues, people no longer talk nonsense about capturing CO2 and shoving it down used oil wells, we now have ways to easily capture and use it. The natural CO2 itself wouldnt be a problem if we didnt deforest rain-forests at the rate we do, the problem isnt the gas but the fact we are taking away its natural sources of capture. Man made CO2 is easy enough to deal with.

Modern issues are more to do with NOx and PM10's etc, these pose a higher risk. This kind of science moves really fast, when you read wikipedia and get your information from news channels, you tend to be way out of date. Try reading scientific literature instead of biased newspapers, that way instead of picking a gas i am a big fan of, you could actually discuss more relevant modern environmental problems. Education dosnt stop when the exam ends, environmental science is much faster paced than say electronics where principles dont change largely.

So come back for a debate when you have had a chance to update your knowledge to a level where your closer to modern thinking, Its impossible to debate CO2 with someone who is out of date with knowledge.

Its my experiment and presently I am not interested in doing it your way for a number of reasons and that's all there is to it.

Yes i know, if you go back and check i mention several times that you would ignore most of what you were told do it your way, i also gave several reasons why this was a bad idea and in many ways a dangerous personality flaw. It may help prove useful to maybe work on that a little.

Experiment away, there is little dangerous to your health in what you want to do, the main danger being very hot liquids. But working on such small scales that shouldnt be a problem, any idea how your going to test the purity of your product? Otherwise how are you going to know if its worked? What kind of condenser set up you going to try? Any details on the packing? have you checked for any Azeotropes you might encounter?

Just a couple of pointers to help you out, small scale lab experiments can be a challenge.

 

[DerStrom8]

You guys were warned to play nice, but you continued to go at it and turned this thread into nothing but mud-slinging. Thread locked.