I don't make transistors, I just read the spec's in the datasheet and follow them.audioguru I think this is the second time you stated that there needs to be plenty Vce for hfe to be correct.
Can you explain how this works?
My first job was as a circuit designer for Philips where some of their experienced engineers taught me the details about their transistors.
For the 2N2222A datasheet posted the hFE (this is DC current gain. hfe is AC current gain.) is a minimum of 100 at a collector current of 150mA and a VCE of 10V. The minimum hFE is only 50 at the same collector current but when VCE is only 1V. The max saturation voltage loss at a collector current of 150mA and a base current of 15mA is 0.3V and the "typical" loss is 0.15V.
The transistor (and most other transistors) has a max saturation voltage loss shown when the base current is 1/10th the collector current and a graph is shown for the "typical" saturation voltage loss when the base current is 1/10th the collector current.