wut the . . .

[Papabravo]

Those guys do have secret police. You just might wangle an invitation to the Secret Policeman's other Ball.

Grin-Chuckle

 

[HiTech]

That guy doesn't happen to be the psycho dictator of North Korea, does he?

Bingo! You do keep on on world events afterall, eh? Now there's a nation that was given all sorts of money and technology to deter their nuclear proliferations efforts.... only to slap the rest of us in the face with it all. The US should create a massive tsunami that will do a majority of the damage without our stepping foot on that commie soil.

 

[Marks256]

Bingo! You do keep on on world events afterall, eh?

Yes, i happen to find history and similar classes interesting. I don't know, something has to be done, and be done soon. With the way wars are breaking out so fast, we just might have WWIII on our hands.

 

[Jack Luminous]

About the trails, I am curious as to why I can observe two planes simultaneously; one will leave a quickly dissipating trail that is gone in minutes, the other will leave a trail that spreads into long lasting cloud cover. Is there really that much variation in atmospheric conditions at any given time that this can happen? Is it something to do with various fuel mixtures/types in the different planes?

Many times I have noticed that the plane at a higher elevation will not leave a large trail, while the lower altitude aircraft will be leaving the long-lasting, massive trail. I thought if anything, the trails would be more likely to form at higher altitudes.

Twenty-thirty years ago, I don't remember ever seeing trails that form large clouds that last many hours - if not all day. I've only noticed this in the last ten years.

I've also noticed the trails that have gaps in them, like the 'smoke' is shut off for a few seconds. It is not an illusion.

I'm not pushing any conspiracies. These are just some things I have wondered about that the simple explanation of it being 'common contrails like there have always been' (or something to that effect) just doesn't seem to be a good enough explanation.

 

[philba]

the gaps are actually part of a coded message to the aliens.

seriously, the stratosphere is just as variable as the lower parts of the atmosphere. Different engines produce different amounts of exhaust. Planes have differing numbers of engines. The pilots may be running the engines at different throttle settings and thus producing different levels of water vapor. Probably fuel additives have something to do with it too (condensation nuclei).

 

[Roff]

Did you guys ever see a **broken link removed**? The first one I ever saw looked like the center picture, only it was much longer, and the aircraft was plainly visible. It sorta freaked me out until I figured out what it was. It looked like some sort of beam was being projected out in front of the plane.
I've only seen 2 or 3 of them in my 65 years.
Search Google Images for more pictures.

 

[Marks256]

It is very possible that the one plane got to a higher altitude than the other. Also 32 years ago, i don't think airplanes could get as high as they do now.

 

[Papabravo]

Kelly Johnson's Skunk Works put the SR-71 Blackbird above 100,000 feet at near Mach 3+ more than 30 years ago. Nothing since goes as high and as fast. There's a factoid to chew on.

 

[Marks256]

I stand corrected. But i wasn't talking about the X-Planes.

There's a factoid to chew on.

I am allergic..

 

[AllVol]

Just took a look at the link mentioned in Ron's last post. Quite amazing, looking beyond the referenced page. Some very interesting photography. It makes one realize how many of the old folk tales got started.

As an aside, there is no excuse for ignorance anymore, at least if one has access to a computer and the internet. No question need go unanswered anymore.

Regards,
AllVol

 

[philba]

I stand corrected. But i wasn't talking about the X-Planes.


I am allergic..

all the commercial jet transports have flown at about the same altitude since the 1950s. 30-40K ft. high altitude bombers in wwII routinely went to 30K+, particularly the B29. the japanese fighters couldn't even reach them.

 

[Papabravo]

I stand corrected. But i wasn't talking about the X-Planes.


I am allergic..

The SR-71 was a spy plane, not an X-plane like the one(Bell X-1) Chuck Yeager used to break the sound barrier.

 

[Marks256]

Ok, guys, i said i have been corrected. No need to rub it in.

 

[audioguru]

high altitude bombers in wwII routinely went to 30K+, particularly the B29. the japanese fighters couldn't even reach them.

The max height for a B29 bomber was 31800 feet, a Japanese Zero fighter could climb to 32800 feet. The Zero was flimsy and made out of rice paper and other lightweight stuff. They could out manoeuver anything at low speeds but in a high speed dive they couldn't be controlled and fell apart.

 

[Marks256]

The max height for a B29 bomber was 31800 feet, a Japanese Zero fighter could climb to 32800 feet. The Zero was flimsy and made out of rice paper and other lightweight stuff. They could out manoeuver anything at low speeds but in a high speed dive they couldn't be controlled and fell apart.

That is why the only thing they were good for is kamikaze dive bombing.

 

[Jack Luminous]

As an aside, there is no excuse for ignorance anymore, at least if one has access to a computer and the internet. No question need go unanswered anymore.

Oh sure, you can find answers on the internet, but they are not always correct and free from personal bias and agendas. Or you need to wade through a ton of contradictory answers and B.S. to find the one that most resembles truth. "Don't believe everything you read" is advice that should be heeded now more than ever I suppose. But yes, I don't mean to argue, there is a lot of good knowledge there waiting to be absorbed. The main reason that I got internet service to begin with was to have access to electronics datasheets and information. For that purpose it has been indispensable.

Just took a look at the link mentioned in Ron's last post. Quite amazing, looking beyond the referenced page. Some very interesting photography. It makes one realize how many of the old folk tales got started.

Thought you might like to see some pictures that I took. Among other subjects, I like to film or photograph interesting sky scenes - including full moons and cloud formations.

**broken link removed** This is at sunset. All of this cloud cover is contrails.
**broken link removed**Late morning
**broken link removed**Late morning
**broken link removed**This is not trails, but shows some well defined wave patterns in the sky that I thought looked neat.
**broken link removed**These last two remind me of the palm of a hand.
**broken link removed**

 

[philba]

The max height for a B29 bomber was 31800 feet, a Japanese Zero fighter could climb to 32800 feet. The Zero was flimsy and made out of rice paper and other lightweight stuff. They could out manoeuver anything at low speeds but in a high speed dive they couldn't be controlled and fell apart.

dont forget airspeed. it was almost impossible for them to catch the b29.

 

[AllVol]

That is why the only thing they were good for is kamikaze dive bombing.

Actually, the zero was seldom used as a kamikaze aircraft... they were too valuable and necessary for the expected defense against an American invasion of the Japanese mainland. The main kamikaze aircraft were obsolete torpedo bombers and dive bombers, along with a few training aircraft and anything else that was expendable (including the pilot. [First suicide bomber???]

According to the attached specs, the zero could be operated at above 37,000 feet, well above the 33,600 service ceiling of B-29's. However, after a fast initial climb, the zero climbed like a rock, and burned a lot of fuel doing it. Consequently, the Japs needed lots of advance notice to put up enough zero's to be effective, but they couldn't stay around long because of fuel shortage.

Also, don't knock the rice paper construction. The control surfaces and most of the wing of American aircraft of that period were covered with doped fabric for easy field replacement and/or patching.

The zero "owned the skies" over the Pacific until the appearance of the American F4A-U Corsair and later issues of the carrier-based Hellcats.

 

[AllVol]

Thought you might like to see some pictures that I took.

Very good! I especially noted that your more dramatic picture of contrails was taken during winter, their most prolific time of year as was noted earlier in this thread.

Catchy handle you're using, for one who works with light and shadow.

As to internet usage, I agree that one must be careful what one reads, especially "blogs" which tend to present the owner's thinking and that of those who agree. But for general information... data, rules and regulations, statistics etc., it sure beats owning a stack of books or daily visits to the library.

Salud,
AllVol

 

[HiTech]

Hey Jack L where's the moon pictures you mentioned? Ok since I can't find them, here's a couple that I took using a $7000 7" Meade APO refractor:


On the first photo, the large crater with the center dot between 6 'o clock and 7 o' clock is Tycho, a "complex" crater showing a central peak. The following photos are magnified views of the crater using filters.
**broken link removed** **broken link removed**

This is taken with a 16" Meade reflector

**broken link removed**