12DC Sockets

[cowboybob]

Outstanding pics!!

OK. It'll take me awhile to recreate the schematic from the pics.

Two questions:

1. The donut (or toroidal) looking thingy marked "950"; is that a capacitor or something. Does it look, from the side, at all like the the caps marked "1mF 16 V and 100mF 16v"?

2. Who made them and is there a schematic already available for the PCB?

CBB

 

[Muttley600]

Glad you liked the pics, amazing what you can do with magnifying glass with lights around the outside

950 has what looks like a rubber sleeve on it?
Also has curvy side rather than straight,but same length as capicitors, I could cut rubber sleeve off to see if there's any more numbers underneath as this was a sacrifice item in the name of understanding

I'll put a better photo of it up tomorrow as off computer now cause it's gone 11

Sorry no schematic as this was a brought item for Dora

Have fun working out what it is, any ideas yet, guess?

Look forward to finding out

Goodnight, back on tomorrow, but may be tempted to pop in to see what you think if Im still up in a bit

Best Regards
Graham

 

[cowboybob]

Some manner of control and protection. Just a SWAG (scientific wild a** guess).

 

[Muttley600]

Morning CBB **broken link removed**

Heres photo flipped over so parts on board now relate pcb **broken link removed**

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prob helpful to have other side next to it

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interestingly both - are above capicitors & 950 with cover off is just wire wrapped around

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I am trying to do scematic but very slow, onlt on 7th attempt so far **broken link removed**

Then have you seen this

& this

Taken from thread off this site **broken link removed**

I think we are getting closer & I'm about to learn lots **broken link removed**

so making MK1 with wires should be fun then we can look at this stuff **broken link removed**

 

[cowboybob]

Morning Graham,

Thanks for the additional pic. a big HELP (as if dyslexia ain't bad enough, flipping a PCB back and forth top to bottom gives me fits): it is WAY better to be able to see both at the same time.

The first link I'll get back to you on.

The second link refers to electromagnetic "bounce": a collapsing magnetic field in a relay can fry driving devices if not suppressed. This is generally and easily handled by a simple switching diode across the relay's coil contacts. I don't think is a major concern for your project. Unless you intend to add relays somewhere.

Looking forward to seeing pics of your progress.

CBB

 

[Muttley600]

Erm yes, was going to add relay into box, off computer as about to go back to work in a bit but I'll put photo of what I have now (can't remember if I posted relay earlier in post) aim of box is to incorporate everything inside with just lead to battery
So have easy power supply
Have seen some nice 10A mini relays. Lol

Edit: relay at moment on page 3 of this thread, tis 30A. eek, went a bit OTT I think

 

[cowboybob]

Boy, do I know the desire to use stuff in my pile of parts. I've wanted to put a component on a circuit board, not connected to anything, simply because it looks good.

I know, pretty sad, huh?

 

[KeepItSimpleStupid]

Graham: (nitpic back in post #78 - Math)

You assumed say a design current of 20 mA, found a resistor value and then selected the nearest. That new resistor value changes the designed current so you can no longer use 20 mA. The power dissipated by the resistor will be P= I^2*R with the new I. I(new) = V/R; e.g. (12-1.2)/470

There is enough slop here, the calcs didn't matter.

 

[Muttley600]

Boy, do I know the desire to use stuff in my pile of parts. I've wanted to put a component on a circuit board, not connected to anything, simply because it looks good.

I know, pretty sad, huh?

But I take it you know how to so your one step in front of me ;-)

Graham: (nitpic back in post #78 - Math)

You assumed say a design current of 20 mA, found a resistor value and then selected the nearest. That new resistor value changes the designed current so you can no longer use 20 mA. The power dissipated by the resistor will be P= I^2*R with the new I. I(new) = V/R; e.g. (12-1.2)/470

There is enough slop here, the calcs didn't matter.

One day I'll actually understand what componants are & what they do, then hopefully I'll better understand calculations :-/

Have you noticed my steep learning curve.lol

Gong to have to look at calcs tonight as can't engage brain properly while at work but I do want to understand what your saying

This can be quite frustrating when you want to understand & I will understand if it takes me ten years *whers my bangy head against the wall smiley when i need it*
I can see current has changed but that was the nearest resistor, is this just a math fault for not recalculating (I)???

Amazing what a smoke can achieve, because the led (20mA) & resistor (470) are fixed, that means V was the only variable, meaning math was wrong, now I get what your saying, CBB did point that out to me later on, but I will always worked math out on fixed componants in future

 

[cowboybob]

That last pic shows, very nicely, the component I couldn't ID. It's an inductor (or "choke" in this configuration).

I'll work on the schematic this evening.

Thanks

 

[KeepItSimpleStupid]

I can see current has changed but that was the nearest resistor, is this just a math fault for not recalculating (I)???

Right, I just wanted you to see that the new current changed. A concept, not necessarily a rule.

At some point you could be designing a circuit for, "worst case".

Your power supply has a tolerance: In fact you might say 8 to 13.8 V with faults to +18 V and spikes from +200 to -50 or so all because it's an automotive electrical system. The 8V might be the minimum voltage you would like it to work at, but may not. Already you are using a design voltage of 12V, but it's likely 13.8 V or so.

Now the LED's have a Vf (min) an Vr(typ) and a Vr (max); What's worst case?
If can have some typical numbers and some max numbers and even some max numbers with pulse width attached to it.

Your resistors have tolerances; 10%, 5%, 1%, 0.1% With each tolerance group there is a higher cost and a "different set" of values. There are different types of resistors such as carbon, film and metal oxide.

There are resistors with low inductance.

In your design, they pretty much have no impact. Just because you ignored something here, doesn't mean it always gets ignored.

Nice datasheet on the surge stopper BTW. At the very least, I would invest in a TVS diode (18 V or so) and a Reversed biased diode in your design for the 12V power in, after the fuse. The reversed diode will attempt to clamp negative spikes and the TVS will help clamp positive ones.

 

[Muttley600]

That last pic shows, very nicely, the component I couldn't ID. It's an inductor (or "choke" in this configuration).

I'll work on the schematic this evening.

Thanks

Right, work done for the day, food eaten, cuppa on side **broken link removed**

I cheated & asked dad what that was earlier, he said it trims power, what does that mean **broken link removed**

& while asking found out 221 was a capactor, so after looking up, 221 is a cement plate capacitor that somehow compensates tempreture changes in tuned circuits but don't understand how at the moment but thats likely because they have values of pF that I haven't come across yet, see your meant to be impressed, I'm getting the bug of wanting to know how to identify parts now **broken link removed**

here we go, being clever I looked up 'chokes' thinking I was going to understand what that did **broken link removed** the one I found looked like a resistor, so now your going to tell me all those resistor looking thingys on that mini pcb aren't all resistors aren't you **broken link removed** ok, tried again, a choke is to slow down current in a magnetic field/ maybe ferrite core that alters frequency, have I understood that right **broken link removed**

Then theres long black & silver thingys, I take it the small gold one is a zener diode, but unlike normal diodes, allows current back the other way, value dependant

Will get back on phone now but carry on answering long questions tomorrow, including KISS's

This is more fun, love learning new things **broken link removed**

feel free to explain resistor looking thingys **broken link removed**

componant ID is a start **broken link removed** along with basic idea of what they do

Not at work until 12 tomorrow, so catch up bigger things then & continue with this post but feel free to carry on, didn't get any further with my understanding of scematic as I don't know some of the diagrams for stuff, but once I know what they are I can look them up

& have you heard of 'circuit wizard' is it any good?

yes, I'm well & truly hooked now

Now the LED's have a Vf (min) an Vr(typ) and a Vr (max); What's worst case?

If can have some typical numbers and some max numbers and even some max numbers with pulse width attached to it.

Your resistors have tolerances; 10%, 5%, 1%, 0.1% With each tolerance group there is a higher cost and a "different set" of values. There are different types of resistors such as carbon, film and metal oxide.

There are resistors with low inductance.

In your design, they pretty much have no impact. Just because you ignored something here, doesn't mean it always gets ignored.

Nice datasheet on the surge stopper BTW. At the very least, I would invest in a TVS diode (18 V or so) and a Reversed biased diode in your design for the 12V power in, after the fuse. The reversed diode will attempt to clamp negative spikes and the TVS will help clamp positive ones.

Surely worse case for resistors is going past max load, which would blow the led light rather than it just not working with to lower a current or at very least it would just be dim

I had seen there were different tolerances, but thinking about it, the larger the tolerance, the more scope you have. Had also seen carbon film & metal resistors, I just thought carbon film ones were an older version? TBC.

 

[Muttley600]

caps marked "1mF 16 V and 100mF 16v"?

2. Who made them

CBB

Sorry, missed that, it was KDC who made caps if that was what you were asking?

 

[KeepItSimpleStupid]

Three simple concepts.

1. The voltage across a capacitor cannot change instantaneously.
2. The current through an inductor cannot change instantaneously.
3. The current and voltage across a resistor can change instantaneously.

 

[Muttley600]

Night both, shedded
Best Regards
Graham

 

[cowboybob]

Catch ya in AM.

 

[KeepItSimpleStupid]

Some clues are in the designations:
C (Capacitor)
L (Inductor)
R Resistor
D Diode
Q (Some sort of semiconductor like a transistor)

221 is a way of marking stuff that's small. It means 22 + 1 zero pf or 220 pf or 220 picofarad ceramic capacitor. The type discernible by the physical characteristic.

Resistors can be marked in the same way: a 102 resistor is 1000 ohms

 

[cowboybob]

Some clues are in the designations:
C (Capacitor)
L (Inductor)
R Resistor
D Diode
Q (Some sort of semiconductor like a transistor)

221 is a way of marking stuff that's small. It means 22 + 1 zero pf or 220 pf or 220 picofarad ceramic capacitor. The type discernible by the physical characteristic.

Resistors can be marked in the same way: a 102 resistor is 1000 ohms

Etch this in your brain. There are other clues as well but for the moment, KISS has provided very important component identifier info. You'll use it all the time.

Zener diodes, basically, provide a a stable voltage, similar to a that of a voltage regulator, but with an important difference: they are not designed for any significant current carrying situations like a voltage/current regulator. Their function is generally relegated to providing biasing in a circuit. More on that later

(Zener sim to appear here soon)

The schematic I promised is still in beta. More accurately, I ain't done nothin' yet. Got to watching a movie last night (Giant w/ James dean) and and didn't realize it's 3 hours long...

I'll do it this AM.

Circuit wizard is a PCB creation program that I have not used, but it certainly get's great reviews. And, with auto-routing (it'll create traces between component parts for you: very handy), and it appears that it's pretty powerful. It looks like an entry level EECAD type of product. Don't know if it's free or what. It does NOT appear to be a simulator, any one of which are also very handy to have.

You're understanding of this "tronics" stuff is progressing nicely. I'm impressed.

CBB

 

[Muttley600]

Some clues are in the designations:
C (Capacitor)
L (Inductor)
R Resistor
D Diode
Q (Some sort of semiconductor like a transistor)

Morning both **broken link removed**

ok, we need to stop there again while I get head around this again, we've missed a bit if I'm understanding correctly, lets go back to electrons for a second

elctrons flow around a circuit but for what ever reason, engineers always build componants on the returning electrons (+) so when we make circuits they are normally worked out on this basis.

I was struggling to understand what different componants do, but after more research this morning the elctrons move around on a waveform

waveforms can mean lots of different things
light
sound
electric
etc, so all things can be measured & calculated

in electric we have two types of waveform
AC = varies
DC = steady (flat)

in these waveforms we have measurements here:

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Then in each measurement, we have values here:

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so relating these measurements to waveforms, componants would (don't forget this is me guessing here **broken link removed**)

C (Capacitor) = limit top of waveform
L (Inductor) = limit bottom of waveform
R Resistor = change waveform
D Diode = allow in only one direction (mostly)
Q (Some sort of semiconductor like a transistor) = switches to different waveform

Edit: gotta ask this, so what is a waveform? Current or voltage or neither?


I haven't forgot other Q's but I need to understand what we are dealing with so I can relate componants use to what they are actually doing rather than just accepting they do so

sorry, am I making this harder than it should be **broken link removed**

why do I get the feeling I've just scratched the surface **broken link removed**

 

[Muttley600]

More accurately, I ain't done nothin' yet. Got to watching a movie last night (Giant w/ James dean) and and didn't realize it's 3 hours long...

So was it a good film **broken link removed** I stopped watching TV years ago when I realised that I was wasting loads of my life just sat there when I could be getting on with jobs, I love the cinema as that is special time out on a limited basis **broken link removed**
I don't hate tv, just when you are watching it for sake of it seems mad, at one time would have lay on sofa with dog on lap & automatically turned tv on, now content to lay on sofa with dog because I wanna spend time with him

Circuit wizard is a PCB creation program that I have not used, but it certainly get's great reviews. And, with auto-routing (it'll create traces between component parts for you: very handy), and it appears that it's pretty powerful. It looks like an entry level EECAD type of product. Don't know if it's free or what. It does NOT appear to be a simulator, any one of which are also very handy to have.

It is £90 & says it has simulator **broken link removed** just thought circuit to pcb sounded good, is tina better

You're understanding of this "tronics" stuff is progressing nicely. I'm impressed.

CBB

I'm trying, I'm not giving up, dad said we can go through all his old stuff & I can have some of it, including an oscilloscope **broken link removed**

Need to get ready for work, why does time fly when your having fun

will nose on site while out smoking **broken link removed**

& just wanted to say a quick 'thank you' to you both, cause I'm loving all this **broken link removed**