2010 Camaro Afterburners project, help needed!

Hey guys Im new here and working on a project that has officially fallen out of my limited electric wiring knowledge.

In short, what I am trying to do is make it so when I press the gas pedal on my car, a set of leds mounted next to each exhaust pipe hole on the rear diffuser, will get brighter with more throttle.

The car I am working on is a 2010 camaro, it has an electronic throttle control system.

From the gas pedal there is a purple wire that sends the throttle input to the cars ECM.


How can I tap into this signal and use it to control the amount of voltage being delivered to my leds?

The desired effect is this, at idle with no throttle input you can see these orange leds I have already wired up to my license plate lights. When more throttle is applied a second set of orange leds will get brighter depending on the input. This will make the car look like it has afterburners.

What happens when the circuit you attach to your throttle-wire fails in a way that applies a full-throttle signal to the ECM. You may think..."afterburner!" ...at that point.
Look for a tachometer circuit that can drive a PWM (pulse width modulation) circuit that can control the intensity of the LED's. In fact, if the tach has a fixed width pulse output, that will be your PWM.

Just thinking out loud.

Ken

If you're in the United States, you might want to make sure your local laws will allow something like that, otherwise you might attract the popo right and left (fast car, reddish lights that change in brightness on the rear that -are not- brake lights - yeah, that has "potential ticket" written all over it). There's also the safety issue which might get you in trouble: imagine you're the driver of a car behind you, you accelerate, he sees what he thinks could be brake lights coming on and getting brighter, so he slams on the brakes, which causes someone to rear-end him - guess who's at fault (you - and the guy who rear-ended him). You might want to think about this carefully (and/or consult somebody and your local laws).

I'm not saying it isn't a cool idea - I actually like it; on a track or other controlled driving area, it would be fine. But you might be setting yourself up for a monetary lesson in automobile safety laws, depending on where you drive that vehicle with those lights...

@ kmoffett

"Look for a tachometer circuit that can drive a PWM (pulse width modulation) circuit that can control the intensity of the LED's. In fact, if the tach has a fixed width pulse output, that will be your PWM."
Could you go more into depth on this?

And yeah lol using the throttle input may be a bad idea! Good thinking on that thanks! lol

@crosh

the lights will be orange/amber so they will not be brake lights. ill probably worry about legal troubles after i get it working, or rather if!

Hey could you go into more detail on how to utilize the signals from the tachometer? Treat me like Im a caveman who can put things together if told haha.

And this is for a show car so Ill worry abotut legality later. They are orange leds so they wouldnt be confused with brakes lights.

imagine you're the driver of a car behind you, you accelerate, he sees what he thinks could be brake lights coming on and getting brighter, so he slams on the brakes, which causes someone to rear-end him - guess who's at fault (you - and the guy who rear-ended him).

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If you think the car in front of you is slowing down then you are paying attention to what in is front of you like you are supposed to. If the car in front of you slows down for any reason and you rear end them that is 100% your fault and not the people ahead of you.

No guessing required to figure out who wasn't paying attention to what was in front of them.

The only time rear ending someone is not your fault is if you get rear ended yourself hard enough to be pushed into the vehicle ahead of you. Been there done that, as the middle vehicle, and it was quickly shown that it was not my fault and thus I held no responsibility for the damage to the vehicle ahead of me and the vehicle ahead of me held no responsibility for stopping as well. The dumb ass behind me who was not paying attention got to pay for everyones damage regardless of who got on their brakes first for whatever reason.

if you really wanna hack the purple wire just clip in to it! , and read the signal coming out of it,

But what would be even smarter would be to hack in to the speedometer or rpm gauge, so that the tampering wont fault on the ECM, unless you send a surge,, however IDK what runs a RPM gauge, (prolly an analog voltage??)

PLAN B:In MY dreamworld i use POT(slider variable resistors) FOR EVERYTHING!, ,, I would suggest adding one to the gas peddle, but on your own isolated circuit,

if this is a demo car, maybe you would like your led's to "flikker" like fire more than just "dim out" , or maybe increment like an equalizer going off?? OR maybe somethin like a combo of A & C mixed???

PLAN B:In MY dreamworld i use POT(slider variable resistors) FOR EVERYTHING!, ,, I would suggest adding one to the gas peddle, but on your own isolated circuit,

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And the linkage between the peddle and frame jams, and we're back to ..."afterburner!" ...

if this is a demo car, maybe you would like your led's to "flikker" like fire more than just "dim out" , or maybe increment like an equalizer going off?? OR maybe somethin like a combo of A & C mixed???

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I like that. A uC to read the tach pulse rate, add in flame-flicker loop, and output a PWM to a MOSFET. [/QUOTE]

Ken

Im starting to give up on the idea of tapping into my car's electronics, I cant find enough solid information.

How could I wire the leds to work off of a dimmer? Im sure I can find a dimmer that can travel with the gas pedal or next to it.

tcmtech said:

If you think the car in front of you is slowing down then you are paying attention to what in is front of you like you are supposed to. If the car in front of you slows down for any reason and you rear end them that is 100% your fault and not the people ahead of you.

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You didn't read my post right. Let's say the car in front of you is slowing down, so you slow down too; then all of a sudden other lights (red? orange? who knows!) on the rear of the car become bright (said "afterburners"), so you slam on your brakes (thinking the other guy was hitting his brakes), and the guy behind you plows into you. Now - the guy behind you is at fault. You, meanwhile, haven't hit anyone, because the guy in front of you, you now notice (with chagrin) is pulling away fast, with those lights (what were they?) staying bright (oh - maybe they were orange?). He is continuing on, blissfully unaware that he has just caused an accident behind him. Let's hope you didn't notice his license plate, or make and model of car - or our OP might be heading into court...

tcmtech said:

No guessing required to figure out who wasn't paying attention to what was in front of them.

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You -were- paying attention, and all of a sudden, as you were slowing down, these other lights that were red/orange came on, and you thought the guy was braking more for some reason, so you hit your brakes, and the guy behind -you- wasn't paying attention...

Of course the guy behind you is at fault - but the guy in front of you, who is now speeding away with his fancy "afterburner" orange LED tail-pipe lights - is completely unaware that it was his lighting system that caused your reaction in the first place.

tcmtech said:

The only time rear ending someone is not your fault is if you get rear ended yourself hard enough to be pushed into the vehicle ahead of you. Been there done that, as the middle vehicle, and it was quickly shown that it was not my fault and thus I held no responsibility for the damage to the vehicle ahead of me and the vehicle ahead of me held no responsibility for stopping as well. The dumb ass behind me who was not paying attention got to pay for everyones damage regardless of who got on their brakes first for whatever reason.

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I don't dispute this, and my original story (and my re-telling above) is hopefully clear on this. However, it isn't just the guy behind you who is at fault - the guy in front of you, with his custom light system, is just as much at fault.

Ever been in SoCal with its tule fog? Every year there are insane size pileups caused by drivers speeding on the freeway, entering this fog, where they can't even see to the end of their hood (as a kid, I remember this fog well; one time, going to school, you could stick your arm out and not see your fingers!). Now, a sane driver will slow down a bit, try to pull off to the side of the road, get as far off the shoulder as possible, and turn off their lights (you don't want them on - someone behind you could think that is the "lane" - and hit you!), staying in the car (and buckled in), and wait for the fog to clear before driving on. But every now and then, you'll get someone who panics, and hits their brakes hard - and STOPS - in the middle of the freeway. The next guy behind them notices the bright tail lights (he's only going 35 or maybe less), hits his brakes and the guy behind him misses the cue and plows into him. Meanwhile guy one lets off his brakes, and drives on into the fog, before the guy behind him gets hit (and pushed into him), and totally unaware that he has just caused a pileup of 20-40 cars behind him (and maybe an equal pileup on the other side of the freeway if one of the cars hit jumps the median). Most of the time, the guy who started the whole chain reaction is never caught, and may be completely unaware that his stopping in the middle of the road just caused mayhem (and perhaps even death) behind him.

The OP has said its for a show car, so I'll leave it at that. Let's just hope other people and the police like the idea and they don't get confused, should he take it out on the open road...

DarknesSSss,
As you can see, people may be very reluctant to mess with automotive systems. Think Toyota and a litigious society. You may be willing to take responsibility for your changes, but too often once you're killed, a third party (your family) decides it has to be someone else's fault. Something similar to that pretty much shut down the small private plane industry for many years.
Ken

Guys let me worry about the legality side! And there is absolutely no way anyone who helps me can get into trouble. I came seeking the information, Im the one who will ultimately do the modifications.


And thank you so much for the replies but I think we are getting carried away about the safety issue. I already have the lights wired in! They just stay solid with no animation.

This is a blurry picture but you can see that they are barely brighter than the license plate stock lights.

At this brightness it will still look very cool but it will not be bright enough to cause an accident.

**broken link removed**

Again thanks so much for the replies, keep them coming!

KMoffett said:

DarknesSSss,
As you can see, people may be very reluctant to mess with automotive systems. Think Toyota and a litigious society. You may be willing to take responsibility for your changes, but too often once you're killed, a third party (your family) decides it has to be someone else's fault. Something similar to that pretty much shut down the small private plane industry for many years.
Ken

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Ken, I'm only reluctant to mess with automotive systems when it comes to safety equipment and certain other areas of a vehicle (especially anything having to do with braking or acceleration); that doesn't mean those areas are considered "off limits" - only that the one planning on doing modifications should think long and hard about what they are doing, and where they plan to test these modifications (I would say any kind of modifications on the braking or acceleration portions of a vehicle should be tested on a track under controlled conditions). This is, yes, partly about our litigious society - I wouldn't want to be sued for causing an accident or being the instigator of one. Furthermore, I wouldn't want something like that on my conscience, knowing that I injured somebody (however minor) because of something I did. It's called personal responsibility. I can't necessarily agree with assignment of blame should the person who made the modifications be killed in a horrific accident along with others, but that is something that can only be ultimately decided in the courts. Its why we have such a system. It isn't perfect, but its the best we have so far.

If DarknesSSss is willing to accept the responsibility of his mods, so be it - and it looks like he does. Also, from his picture, it may not present as much of a problem, at least in his case (and vehicle). I guess we'll see where this leads, should his example lead others to emulate him (but then, I don't think it would be his fault should others take his idea and run with it - and -they- cause something to happen - that's -their- responsibility for their modifications).

I know that one method that's used on a TPR (Throttle position sensor) is that it;s resistive and is given a 0-5V and a 5V-0 simultaneous output. Although an expensive product, I would not hesitate using an Isolation amplifier. AD203 | Rugged Mil Temp Range Isolation Amplifier | Isolation Amplifiers | Specialty Amplifiers | Analog Devices This keeps whatever you do on the other side ISOLATED.

DIsclaimer: Whatever you decide is your responsibility.

I wouldn't worry about tapping into vehicle electronics. Do you have a wiring diagram for your car? I find it hard to believe there's only one wire for your throttle - cars with electronic throttle will have two sensors in the pedal and two sensors in the throttle, each putting out different voltage curves. These two different curves are how the engine computer detects problems with either the throttle pedal or the throttle positions sensors.

I haven't looked at a new Camaro, but it might be using CAN from the pedal instead of the typical 0-5v. A multimeter on each of the throttle wires should give you an idea what's going on. If it's the typical pedal sensor you'll have GND, 5V supply and two outputs which change based on pedal movement. Obviously do the tests with the key on, engine off.

I'd put a diode and a 10k resistor in series to prevent any voltage going back from your circuit into the pedal. Even if you did put voltage into the throttle, your engine isn't going to run faster - the ECU will pick up that the voltage input doesn't match the other and you'll find yourself in limp mode with reduced power and a check engine light. Depending on the car, turning the car off and restarting nay return your car to normal, or it may be stuck in limp mode until you clear the codes with a scanner.

You may want to consider looking at using a simple used Toyota MAP sensor as a signal source. You can probably get a good used one at a salvage yard for very little cost.
https://www.electro-tech-online.com/custompdfs/2011/05/h35.pdf

That is just use a common Manifold Air Pressure sensor tapped into one of your main vacuum ports to produce a variable output signal that you can use to drive a current amplifier that powers your LED's.

tcmtech said:

You may want to consider looking at using a simple used Toyota MAP sensor as a signal source. You can probably get a good used one at a salvage yard for very little cost.
https://www.electro-tech-online.com/custompdfs/2011/05/h35-1.pdf

That is just use a common Manifold Air Pressure sensor tapped into one of your main vacuum ports to produce a variable output signal that you can use to drive a current amplifier that powers your LED's.

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Holy **** youre a genius!

I can even just get an LED air/boost gauge, then just reroute the wire going to the guages leds to my leds. It will produce the same effect too.

Great idea Im going to look into that in most detail just because its something I could easily do with my limited wiring knowledge.