Alternative fuel

[killivolt]

I am not saying that what you are thinking will not work.

The crower cycle injects water into the combustion cylinder at the top of the exhaust stroke to get an additional power stroke. You do not get to use the heat lost out the tail pipe but you do recover what you would have lost out the radiator.

Steam engine were often two stage. The exhaust from one cylinder drove the next one. There is a lot of heat going out the tail pipe. Some way of recovering that would be good too.

I was just trying to get how that engine worked I'll look up crower cycle.

Thanks , 3v0

 

[killivolt]

Crower cycle Engine

I would never attempt to put this in a low ambient temp region. Above freezing no need to worry about freezing. I also think that if you were to try to recover all of the pressure and temp then you have a great deal of problems to overcome I.E. explosive.

So this might work well if it were under the right application. That water separation thing would have to be done by heating a high temp oil and boiling the water out. I'm thinking high temp ceramics maybe and no oil. Just how could you control the pressure without the use of a steel support jacket. Differing heat expansion between the two material cracking issues.

kv

 

[arrie]

I'm not sure who's answering who here, but here goes.
3V0, that elliptical gearing system on bikes are completely new to me, did not even know it existed. Do you think the tour de france guys use such setups?
Damn, those guys can peddle it out.
3v0, that was what I was referring to with the spiral like ports, just what you said.

Killivolt, that was more or less what I referred to with the whole hydrous pyrolysis process, high heat at high pressures.
I can see many complications, and would definitely not stand next to such a system in action. Except if you don't mind being turned into oil

 

[killivolt]

Pure energy.

I'm not sure who's answering who here, but here goes.
3V0, that elliptical gearing system on bikes are completely new to me, did not even know it existed. Do you think the tour de france guys use such setups?
Damn, those guys can peddle it out.
3v0, that was what I was referring to with the spiral like ports, just what you said.

Killivolt, that was more or less what I referred to with the whole hydrous pyrolysis process, high heat at high pressures.
I can see many complications, and would definitely not stand next to such a system in action. Except if you don't mind being turned into oil

True , True.

As much grease as I eat I think I would pretty much be about 99% pure.


kv

 

[3v0]

Duplicate Post

 

[3v0]

People have been putting anti-freeze in radiators for years I know it is not quite the same thing but the problem is not a show stopper. Possibly one of the best uses for such an engine would be in a hybrid.

From what I read extracting the water from the oil is a done deal. Neither expensive or heavy. But I do not know the details.

I do not know what you are talking about regarding explosion. The right amount of water injected at the right rate should result in a usable expansion. There is a working prototype.

It is no trick to point out why new things will not work. That is one reason we have made so little progress. Sort of guilty without a trial.

I would never attempt to put this in a low ambient temp region. Above freezing no need to worry about freezing. I also think that if you were to try to recover all of the pressure and temp then you have a great deal of problems to overcome I.E. explosive.

So this might work well if it were under the right application. That water separation thing would have to be done by heating a high temp oil and boiling the water out. I'm thinking high temp ceramics maybe and no oil. Just how could you control the pressure without the use of a steel support jacket. Differing heat expansion between the two material cracking issues.

kv

 

[killivolt]

Brain buster.

People have been putting anti-freeze in radiators for years I know it is not quite the same thing but the problem is not a show stopper. Possibly one of the best uses for such an engine would be in a hybrid.

From what I read extracting the water from the oil is a done deal. Neither expensive or heavy. But I do not know the details.

I do not know what you are talking about regarding explosion. The right amount of water injected at the right rate should result in a usable expansion. There is a working prototype.

It is no trick to point out why new things will not work. That is one reason we have made so little progress. Sort of guilty without a trial.

Maybe for gasoline. But I was thinking of trying to create something that would utilize Hydrogen I thought that was one of the fuel sources you wanted .

I think it would be a good thing if you can regulate the amount of fuel without worrying that it would be a closed system with my idea in mind.

But the engine itself is brilliant. I like this thing.

kv

 

[arrie]

I also believe that the solution to our energy problems, for vehicles at least, will be hybrid.
Maybe we can combine that with a fuel cell system, have a ring motor between the crowler and gearbox to add to the oomph.
It will also add to the fuel efficiency of the combustion engine, especially in the area where combustion engines are hogs, like take-off.

Something like that.

 

[killivolt]

Now I hav to look at a ring Motor.

I also believe that the solution to our energy problems, for vehicles at least, will be hybrid.
Maybe we can combine that with a fuel cell system, have a ring motor between the crowler and gearbox to add to the oomph.
It will also add to the fuel efficiency of the combustion engine, especially in the area where combustion engines are hogs, like take-off.

Something like that.

Just use petrol stay away from complexity.

Put to work what we can build now ?

I think I got it.

Good stuff..... arrie.....3v0

kv

 

[arrie]

Keep in mind, there is no reason why the engine can not be ethanol/methanol.
Heck we can even turn the complete upper part of the car into one huge solar panel, make it a bit more electric.

Hybrid is as hybrid does. But it does so very well.

 

[3v0]

I do not understand what you are talking about regarding hydrogen not working in a closed system.

Have you heard that Mazda claims a rotary engine can run on hydrogen and gasoline without changes in either manufacturing techniques or materials.

On another subject. The goals of power and economy agree at times and not at others. One area in which they disagree is intake air temperature. To get maxium HP you want a cold dense charge. Cold air is not easy to vaporize gasoline in. For higher MPG you want warmer air. Web wisdom looks like 100F is about the right intake temp for best MPG. But take it with a grain of salt.

Maybe for gasoline. But I was thinking of trying to create something that would utilize Hydrogen I thought that was one of the fuel sources you wanted .

I think it would be a good thing if you can regulate the amount of fuel without worrying that it would be a closed system with my idea in mind.

But the engine itself is brilliant. I like this thing.

kv

 

[killivolt]

I do not understand what you are talking about regarding hydrogen not working in a closed system.

Have you heard that Mazda claims a rotary engine can run on hydrogen and gasoline without changes in either manufacturing techniques or materials.

On another subject. The goals of power and economy agree at times and not at others. One area in which they disagree is intake air temperature. To get maxium HP you want a cold dense charge. Cold air is not easy to vaporize gasoline in. For higher MPG you want warmer air. Web wisdom looks like 100F is about the right intake temp for best MPG. But take it with a grain of salt.

3v0, I worked in another industry as a kid I started in my Uncles Car Repair shop at 13. I just couldn't stay there.

I know how the Rotary Compressor works in a closed system Refrigeration.

I was actually thinking along that same line. It just may work any diesel has to warm up along with pressure before it will run right.

This engine would have the same curve to it and freezing is a big part of in low ambient temps would kill you if it ever stopped running.

The other part is heat stress on the compression stroke with ultra high temp.

kv

 

[arrie]

3v0, Mazda is a great company, good future ahead.
Go have a look at the Mazda Furai, triple rotary running 100% ethanol.
I can believe their claims about running any fuel, they have already done so.

I'm not sure about the intake air mix temp, but I do know that the ideal air fuel ratio lies at about 14.7 air to 1 fuel per mass.
The spark plug is just as important, it's temp must be around 650 degrees C.
Ouch, there goes my finger.
Apparently the combustion in an IC engine is rather efficient, given the various conditions are maintained. (Easily done so by modern management systems)
They (researchers) are talking about 97 to 99 % combustion efficiency.
So almost all hydrocarbons will during combustion combine with oxygen to form your two main exhaust components.
That brings me back to why the hell we only get 20% efficiency in the end.
Too much heat loss and internal friction. But it is horrible.

 

[killivolt]

3v0, Mazda is a great company, good future ahead.
Go have a look at the Mazda Furai, triple rotary running 100% ethanol.
I can believe their claims about running any fuel, they have already done so.

I'm not sure about the intake air mix temp, but I do know that the ideal air fuel ratio lies at about 14.7 air to 1 fuel per mass.
The spark plug is just as important, it's temp must be around 650 degrees C.
Ouch, there goes my finger.
Apparently the combustion in an IC engine is rather efficient, given the various conditions are maintained. (Easily done so by modern management systems)
They (researchers) are talking about 97 to 99 % combustion efficiency.
So almost all hydrocarbons will during combustion combine with oxygen to form your two main exhaust components.
That brings me back to why the hell we only get 20% efficiency in the end.
Too much heat loss and internal friction. But it is horrible.

The beauty of combining both. The water injection will keep things cool but the differing expansion rate has to be controlled. I think it is possible to achieve.


Forge on boys whooooa !

kv

 

[arrie]

I think I lost some detail somewhere.

What is expanding?

 

[killivolt]

I'm rusty about this but.......

I think I lost some detail somewhere.

What is expanding?

You have more expansion with water by volume when it turns to steam. The flash point is good for driving of the heat, But varying temp in the cylinder have to monitored precisely to get the right volume. So, If you're going to cool the cylinder with water injection it now has become another factor to deal with. Not to mention the close system idea with any attempt to recycle the heat.

kv

Edit: Unless your going to use the water inside the cylinder after combustion of Hydrogen ?

 

[arrie]

Sure, why don't we bend the con-rods a bit while at it.

Thanks Kv, that does clear it up a bit.

By the way, the comment was two fold, there is a light joke in there. Can you spot it?

 

[killivolt]

Don't light any matches !!!!~i

Sure, why don't we bend the con-rods a bit while at it.

Thanks Kv, that does clear it up a bit.

By the way, the comment was two fold, there is a light joke in there. Can you spot it?

Got it. I'm feeling a little bloated or I would laugh so I'll just stick with a

kv

 

[3v0]

From what I have seen "on the web" our computerized engines are good but not as good as they could be. I think the automakers keep things tame. That way even a so so engine will look as good as the better ones.

When I was first learning to drive dad told me the reason car makers did not use numeric oil pressure guages is that people would not buy the few that had lower oil pressure.​

I am quite sure we could run engines leaner with water injection to cool the burn. I am not convinced we are close to perfection regarding the buring of fuel.

It is not uncommon to try for better MPG by fooling the O2 sensor (offseting it). Some Saturn owners figured out that it is easier to us a resistor between the temperature sensor and the computer. This fools the computer into thiinking the engine is warmer then it is. The computer runs a warmer engine leaner.

...
Apparently the combustion in an IC engine is rather efficient, given the various conditions are maintained. (Easily done so by modern management systems)
They (researchers) are talking about 97 to 99 % combustion efficiency.
So almost all hydrocarbons will during combustion combine with oxygen to form your two main exhaust components.
That brings me back to why the hell we only get 20% efficiency in the end.
Too much heat loss and internal friction. But it is horrible.

 

[killivolt]

Acid build up ?

From what I have seen "on the web" our computerized engines are good but not as good as they could be. I think the automakers keep things tame. That way even a so so engine will look as good as the better ones.

When I was first learning to drive dad told me the reason car makers did not use numeric oil pressure guages is that people would not buy the few that had lower oil pressure.​

I am quite sure we could run engines leaner with water injection to cool the burn. I am not convinced we are close to perfection regarding the buring of fuel.

It is not uncommon to try for better MPG by fooling the O2 sensor (offseting it). Some Saturn owners figured out that it is easier to us a resistor between the temperature sensor and the computer. This fools the computer into thiinking the engine is warmer then it is. The computer runs a warmer engine leaner.

3v0 or Anyone who wants to address my question.

In a sealed system I.E. Refrigeration if you have the presents of water the mineral oil develops acids.

With an IC engine that can run on Hydrogen or an engine that has water injection as the second stroke any excessive water would be a problem.

Unless they are using distilled and that helps cut down other reactions like rusting, or oil breakdown etc.

But maybe their are enough detergents in the oil this may cut down on this problem and this becomes negligible.

kv