Cleaning waste motor oils for oil burning type boilers

[large_ghostman]

Maybe I know some things you don't.

Now that makes me wonder if HHO works
I would be grateful if you could video your attempt and upload it, i am sure it would be of great educational value.

 

[JimB]

I would be grateful if you could video your attempt and upload it, i am sure it would be of great educational value.

What an excellent suggestion.

Now that you mention it, how about some pictures of some of your technological adventures and exploits?
As they like to say on a machining site which I visit from time to time...

"Pictures, or it did not happen"

Get that camera going LLG.

JimB

 

[large_ghostman]

What an excellent suggestion.

Now that you mention it, how about some pictures of some of your technological adventures and exploits?
As they like to say on a machining site which I visit from time to time...

"Pictures, or it did not happen"

Get that camera going LLG.

JimB

Where you been? i do upload pics!

But ok Jim tell you what, as this site has real low upload limits (not an insult but its a problem) and through uploding here means going from RAW to png to screen shot to jpeg, you choose which exploit you want most to see. If i havnt uploaded it yet i will down grade the pics and upload for you.

Last time you asked (i did upload foy you after all the agro of doing that) i asked you a question based on the pics and datasheet i uploaded (was radio micro board and micro sized antenna question), you didnt bother replying to it, So this time you choose which exploit you want pics of, if i got them i will load tonight if not i will do them for you, you might consider then cutting me the same slack you do others.

 

[JimB]

Last time you asked (i did upload foy you after all the agro of doing that) i asked you a question based on the pics and datasheet i uploaded (was radio micro board and micro sized antenna question), you didnt bother replying to it,

I don't remember that, can you show me?

JimB

 

[large_ghostman]

I don't remember that, can you show me?

JimB

I will look for it tomorrow, it was a while back. i remember it because i was well miffed spending all that time uploading and then you didnt answer the question i posed in response to yours!!

Shouldnt be too hard to find, i think you posed a question on a transceiver board i wanted to use. So i posted some pics of the devs kits and chips i wanted to use (kitchen table i think), what is really annoying is i cant remember the question i asked, but i never did find the answer out!!

I use a different chip set now, but the question would likely still stand as i do use similar boards still.

While we are mentioning it. ANY chance we can get upload limit increased a bit? Modern DSLR cameras take pretty big pics even if you screen shot them. I am positive it puts people off posting more pics, it certainly does me. Yes you could shoot jpeg but then a screen shot downgrades it alot, or bring back some the old pic servers that were around

Actually whats the limit of linked pics?. I might be able to upload to one my own sites and just link using the URL thing in the code

HINT pick nickel stuff first, as i just found some of those pics of me dissolving it in ferric chlorides, shows how slow it is and whats left over. but you get the chloride

Bio reactor stuff i have posted a few times, i have it working so would be before pics only and not ones showing how we connect the chambers.

Chem pics of oil i am doing for this thread anyway.

 

[tcmtech]

Now that makes me wonder if HHO works
I would be grateful if you could video your attempt and upload it, i am sure it would be of great educational value.

I don't follow the connection or implication. Are you implying that other heat sources cant heat oil and that only electricity works to heat it, or that HHO could work for heating it? Your continued lack of direction and clarity in your comments make your understandings and intent hard to follow what you are going for way too often.

As for documenting it I will likely take pictures and do a write up when I get to it someday. But for now it's on the lower end of the priorities list. As for video I don't do video and have no interest in ever starting to.

 

[Western]

You won't learn it all in day but in a week of spare time you will be someplace comfortable on the basic concepts and shortly after that you will have a very solid idea of what you would need to make a system work for yourself.

Ok, thanks. I've been reading up and trying to make sense of it all.

Just some questions regarding your system. You showed your fuel nozzle and pre-heater earlier ... I gather the pre-heater needs to run continually ... you don't turn it off once the system is running ... and rely on the operating temperature within the heater?

What temperature range do you aim for the oil arriving at the nozzle.

With your system ... what wattage is your blower fan.

Thanks.

 

[tcmtech]

You showed your fuel nozzle and pre-heater earlier ... I gather the pre-heater needs to run continually ... you don't turn it off once the system is running ... and rely on the operating temperature within the heater?

Its controlled by the PID loop controller unit which keeps the nozzle around 300F. It's about 500 watts but cycles on and off in short bursts so the overall heating wattage is maybe half that.

The burner and blower is just a common fuel oil furnace burner unit which is something like 1/6 Hp and draws maybe 100 - 150 watts. It could be way smaller if that motor didn't have to drive the little pump that supplies the nozzle with oil at 120 - 150 PSI.

 

[Western]

Its controlled by the PID loop controller unit which keeps the nozzle around 300F. It's about 500 watts but cycles on and off in short bursts so the overall heating wattage is maybe half that.

The burner and blower is just a common fuel oil furnace burner unit which is something like 1/6 Hp and draws maybe 100 - 150 watts. It could be way smaller if that motor didn't have to drive the little pump that supplies the nozzle with oil at 120 - 150 PSI.

Thanks, that all helps.

Problem with researching ... you come across a million different ways of doing things.

 

[tcmtech]

Problem with researching ... you come across a million different ways of doing things.

Yep. that's the hard part. The initial learning curve is a bit overwhelming regarding narrowing down which parts of all that info best fit your needs and abilities plus numerous other variables that will show up as you start to flesh out your design.

With DIY projects I tend to error towards the simple so that when things don't work exactly as planned I don't have much invested into things. For your application I think the simple liquid to air heat exchanger/radiator in your air conditioning system is probably the most realistic way to go just for low cost and simplicity of install sake on the plumbing end of things.

The main thing to consider is the sitting down and putting hard numbers to the prices of the different ways you can go with the system. Just because something costs a lot does not mean it's best or that it's best for what you may need to do. Also, don't forget that some things, like with the Pex type tubing, you need a special crimping tool to put it together so either you need one you can borrow our you may be out some more money to have one of your own.

 

[shortbus=]

Also, don't forget that some things, like with the Pex type tubing, you need a special crimping tool to put it together so either you need one you can borrow our you may be out some more money to have one of your own.

Wow those Pex tools are out of most peoples reach! Let's see now a guy is going to spend$1k or more to do the tr*vis heat system, but can't be able to afford a Pex crimper? **broken link removed**

 

[tcmtech]

Wow those Pex tools are out of most peoples reach! Let's see now a guy is going to spend$1k or more to do the tr*vis heat system, but can't be able to afford a Pex crimper?

The point behind my comment was to think beyond just the cost of building the system and to look at any possible specialty tools or work you may need or just want a reason to justify buying for what components or materials you chose to work with. Ancillary costs add up fast so they need to be kept in mind.

For example with my system where the old shop boiler is ~350 feet from the house where anyone, unlike me, who has to rent or hire a backhoe to trench in a underground lineset that long could have huge additional bill to go with the build. Mine cost me half a day and 10 - 15 gallons of fuel but to hire it done would have been $750 - $1000+ in my parts which in a low heat usage application would be very difficult to cost justify on its own. Getting rental backhoe (if you even know how to run one) for ~$200 - $300 a day, maybe.

BTW, thanks for proving the point of my new tagline, already.

 

[large_ghostman]

I don't follow the connection or implication. Are you implying that other heat sources cant heat oil and that only electricity works to heat it, or that HHO could work for heating it? Your continued lack of direction and clarity in your comments make your understandings and intent hard to follow what you are going for way too often.

As for documenting it I will likely take pictures and do a write up when I get to it someday. But for now it's on the lower end of the priorities list. As for video I don't do video and have no interest in ever starting to.

Look it dosnt take a genius to know that cracking oil with a naked flame is just plain stupid, so your comment about knowing things i dont is just you being you, you not liking the fact others can spot your mistakes a mile off. The fact that when gaping holes are found you would rather fight a lost point than admit someone knew better than you, i suspect it erks even more when they are my age.

Truth is i study this stuff at advanced level, my chemistry and labs skills have been honed in a lab almost my entire life, sometimes people forget my dad was a renowned scientist with a PhD, he also tried to keep our farm going.
There are numurous threads where i make mistakes, sometimes even months later i spot one and fgo back and openly correct it and say i made a mistake, you might want to try it yourself. Dont play word games with me, i tend to really check my information and with these kind of subjects i happen to know my stuff, so dont expect me to back down just to save your face when your wrong.

 

[large_ghostman]

Thanks, that all helps.

Problem with researching ... you come across a million different ways of doing things.

Keep in mind when you centrifuge waste oil you get the thinner fraction, i get the feeling the oil is much cleaner than TCM is using. I use a higher pressure pump than standard and a slightly bigger jet, but my preheat sounds very different to his.

I had a show weekend, its lead to alot of work this week, i should be back properly Friday and as far as I know no shows next weekend. So i should finally get all the info published for you, one thing i did do and recommend you do, get the boiler flu gas tested yearly as part of a service. What you can get away with in the states is not always the same here or where you are, there can be a high financial penalty for not complying to or for breaking rules, and this dosnt take into account the toxic and sometimes deadly fumes you can create and put into the house or your environment.

Most EU based energy sites that advocate waste oil systems, all mention the horrors of carbon monoxide or other gases we cant know about. Never forgot your burning a mix of things, it stuff that gets thrown into waste oil barrels. An example is one source i cant/wont use, the garage has a bodywork shop in it and they dump waste solvents in the waste oil barrels. It would be stupid to risk it as they tend to have a high ratio of solvent to oil. How do i know? Gas chromatograph, but in this case you dont need one, they use so much of it you can smell it in the oil.

I wont be posting alternative energy stuff here any more, the threads get swamped with nonsense. You will know where to find the real info, its your choice what you do. So far i have always backed every claim with decent scientific evidence and not hill billy rhetoric.

I will hand over the renewable section to the resident expert until Darwin makes some room.

 

[tcmtech]

Look it dosnt take a genius to know that cracking oil with a naked flame is just plain stupid, so your comment about knowing things i dont is just you being you, you not liking the fact others can spot your mistakes a mile off. The fact that when gaping holes are found you would rather fight a lost point than admit someone knew better than you, i suspect it erks even more when they are my age.

Where did I ever say I was using and open flame and doing it directly? Great and incorrect over assumptions on your part does not make my knowledge and understandings invalid.

And, BTW, do a bit of research on your own before claiming false authority on something.

Direct flame cracking is used everywhere for crude and used oil distillation/fractionation systems from the huge industrial scale down to the micro DIY level. Youtube even has a number of videos on DIYers and micro commercial rigs that use direct flame heating methods which rather proves who really has the 'gaping holes' in their knowledge and experience base and on more than one level at that.

Truth is i study this stuff at advanced level, my chemistry and labs skills have been honed in a lab almost my entire life,

Yes, your whole 17 year life, (I have clothing that's older and more experienced than you.) of which you have only spent a small part of it learning and experiencing anything in the adult real world level. Come back in 15 years after your out of college and had a decade of real world applications work and tell me what you know.

Odds are it will be a lot more than you do now.

 

[tcmtech]

Keep in mind when you centrifuge waste oil you get the thinner fraction, i get the feeling the oil is much cleaner than TCM is using. I use a higher pressure pump than standard and a slightly bigger jet, but my preheat sounds very different to his.

I tend to run raw oil that's just been passed through a 20 - 50 micron filter. No need to over complicate a simple process if its not really needed. And yes. there are a number of ways to burn the stuff. I like my method but other may have their own way of doing things too.

Most EU based energy sites that advocate waste oil systems, all mention the horrors of carbon monoxide or other gases we cant know about.

Rather why they get used as outdoor or in shop or commercial type heat systems rather than in house home heating. Its why I have my boilers in low occupancy hell vented locations like my small work shed and the old shop where venting the places out is of no issue should there be a excessive smoke back problem.

Same reason I recommend going full outdoor boiler designs as well where the mess and smoke issues are of little to no real concern unless you are doing something extremely bad in highly unusual conditions.

Although realistically if the design is solid and sealed properly plus has its intake air coming from outside and the exhaust vented high enough to pass any relevant codes a common wood burning systems would require the realistic chance of CO or other such combustion gas poisoning is extremely low. Badly designed and poorly maintained worst case scenarios do not represent the bulk of reality no matter how bad someone what to push that narative.

Never forgot your burning a mix of things, it stuff that gets thrown into waste oil barrels. An example is one source i cant/wont use, the garage has a bodywork shop in it and they dump waste solvents in the waste oil barrels. It would be stupid to risk it as they tend to have a high ratio of solvent to oil. How do i know? Gas chromatograph, but in this case you dont need one, they use so much of it you can smell it in the oil.

Quite true. Unless you know how to deal with high solvent/gasoline/high flammability low viscosity mystery mixes it can cause problems. That was largely why I developed mine to work as it does. I have ran mixes of 50 - 60% old gasoline without issue simply because the preheating temperature can be adjusted to keep the nozzle flow rates in the correct range as ot not cause overfiring and other related incomplete combustion processes from running away. Something that standard air atomizing nozzle based used oil burners have very hard time coping with safely.

I wont be posting alternative energy stuff here any more, the threads get swamped with nonsense.

If I was you I would start by doing my research far better and backing my claims up with actual verifiable data and even extended real world hands on experiments wasn't just a controlled lab environment to slow that problem down a bit. I've tried to set a good example adn even a moderator or two have pointed out that flaw in your supperont your claims,

What an excellent suggestion.

Now that you mention it, how about some pictures of some of your technological adventures and exploits?
As they like to say on a machining site which I visit from time to time...

"Pictures, or it did not happen"

Get that camera going LLG.

JimB

but so far you haven't gotten the hang of it. Also, claiming anyone who disagrees with you (by their bringing verifiable facts, evidenced experience to support themself while refuting you) to be liar really doesn't help you on your credibility either.

You may not like my methods or approaches or anything else, that doesn't fit your self proclaimed superior moral narratives, but the reality is I have actual threads that show what sort of work I do that are based on real world experience I started gaining well before you were born and some of those threads showcasing that knowledge have been here on this forum longer than you have by a wide margin as well.

I may not be the world's top expert on custom built multi fuel boilers but I do know that my first one was built about the same time you were born and I have been on a ever increasing pursuit of knowledge and experience to make it better, more reliable, more efficient and safer the whole time and now because of that I can do things safely and reliably that people like you are sure are wildly dangerous to outright criminal even though they are in fact not. I simply have a working knowledge, experience and skill set base to work with you don't, yet.

Like you I want to make the world better for my existence however I don't make wild unfounded unsupportable claims to know things I clearly don't have true well founded working knowledge, experience and understanding of while using false claims to shut down anyone else who can show they know and understand something I don't. I give what I can and leave the few who may ever look at my work to decide if it's right for them or not based on their moral imperatives and not anyone else's, especially mine.

 

[unclejed613]

The main thing to consider is the sitting down and putting hard numbers to the prices of the different ways you can go with the system. Just because something costs a lot does not mean it's best or that it's best for what you may need to do.

there's a lot to be said for simple solutions. somebody once told me about a US contractor that came up with an expensive "cannon" that shot BBs at hundreds of thousands of feet per second. after the cold war ended the contractor went and saw a russian engineer that used a mailing tube filled with solid rocket propellant, and a block of explosives (to the tune of about $5 worth of materials) to achieve the same results.

btw, i think the US contractor's experimental setup in the story is the hypervelocity test facility run by NASA. **broken link removed**

 

[large_ghostman]

Direct flame cracking is used everywhere for crude and used oil distillation/fractionation systems from the huge industrial scale down to the micro DIY level

Yes and where you live its considered reasonable for any novice to make high explosives and set them off with next to zero knowledge. Direct flame cracking on a small scale is not safe, on a large scale its being phased out.

Where did I ever say I was using and open flame and doing it directly?

Your only mention is having plenty of BTU's at your disposal and references to used tires etc. The fact you mention open flame cracking i would consider proves my point your thinking of open flame. Other countries read this forum, the advice your giving pertains mainly to one part of the world. Your information is extremely dangerous and while you may care, i certainly care if people think its perfectly safe to do just because you said it was.

I regularly distill petrol for pet ether, and make Diethyl ether. I use laboratory equipment in a proper lab setting with alot of safety precautions, i wouldnt give details on how to do it with a steam bath let alone a open flame or even a hotplate.

Rather why they get used as outdoor or in shop or commercial type heat systems rather than in house home heating. Its why I have my boilers in low occupancy hell vented locations like my small work shed and the old shop where venting the places out is of no issue should there be a excessive smoke back problem.

Same reason I recommend going full outdoor boiler designs as well where the mess and smoke issues are of little to no real concern unless you are doing something extremely bad in highly unusual conditions.

Again another big difference between where you live (which is almost third world in its approach to environmental issues) and the rest of us, its better to clean an oil to the point it dosnt need to be out doors to be safe or meet regs, rather than just take a lazy dont care attitude and spew toxins everywhere.

but so far you haven't gotten the hang of it. Also, claiming anyone who disagrees with you (by their bringing verifiable facts, evidenced experience to support themself while refuting you) to be liar really doesn't help you on your credibility either.

You more than anyone should be aware i am ALWAYS able to back what i say with high quality scientific papers from quality journals, i unlike yourself do not rely on random websites with no credibility.

I havnt called you a liar or suggested you are one, other words spring to mind way before those ones, but people can judge on what is posted to back what you say.

If I was you I would start by doing my research far better and backing my claims up with actual verifiable data and even extended real world hands on experiments wasn't just a controlled lab environment to slow that problem down a bit.

I tried all that in the begging by posting papers in other threads, it was clear you were unable to understand the content. So rather than try and make you look silly i stopped posting them, in one thread i posted so much evidence that you still refuted with nothing more than your opinion, it got to the point even the mods asked i didnt post so much reference material (you were starting to look very silly). So i would advise you not to encourage me to going back to posting material you do not understand.

I notice you mention my age yet again, i am sure you think this is some kind of trigger for me, i can assure you it isnt. I am proud of my age, i am proud that despite not doing a degree first i was excepted on and i am doing extremely well on a post undergraduate degree, i was allowed to do this because of the depth of both ability and knowledge i displayed to a panel of highly educated people.


Those that actually know me, and indeed one well respected member on here who is in business with me, will tell you that my attention to detail and research skills are way above normal. That might sound arrogant and to others i am sorry if it does, but the point is when i post on these types of subjects i know what i am talking about.

As for real life experience, i have designed (and i am still doing so) systems that are in use. One particular system is being evaluated as a local authority blue print system. In other words its a design likely to be put on the list of systems the Scottish government approve local authorities to use.

Anyone can burn oil or make methane, but try and so it efficiently,safely and within all MODERN legal frameworks.


@ everyone else

I am sorry for the above, i tried in the beginning, in other threads to provide decent back up references. Even when it became clear who was working from facts and who was not, the other poster is insecure and will not admit it. I dont mind that at all, my concern and the sole reason i have posted so strongly this time, i do care that many people who never register here but use the information, are given the correct information. In future i will post back up evidence for quality sources, i wont bother responding to links from random websites or pure speculation.

If a point is raised and i ignore it but you want clarification, then please do ask and i will do my best to go through it. It matters to me that people do things correctly and dont do things that are dangerous or break laws. I am also like many others and strongly believe in not turning the planet we live on into a soup of toxic waste when there is a better way.

Most chop and change things or whatever you want to do, or see this as a post where i am simply squeezing pus out of a spot. There wont be many more posts like this, i have made my points clear nd done my best to be reasonable. If the other person posts anything of value in these threads i will answer it, if its just the normal random rubbish i will ignore it.

 

[tcmtech]

there's a lot to be said for simple solutions. somebody once told me about a US contractor that came up with an expensive "cannon" that shot BBs at hundreds of thousands of feet per second. after the cold war ended the contractor went and saw a russian engineer that used a mailing tube filled with solid rocket propellant, and a block of explosives (to the tune of about $5 worth of materials) to achieve the same results.

btw, i think the US contractor's experimental setup in the story is the hypervelocity test facility run by NASA. **broken link removed**

Kind of like the pile of money spent to make a erasable pen that wrote in zero G and the Russians just used pencils.

That's why I try to make a point of pushing the sitting down and doing hard planning and any amount of research into some new project anyone is going to consider taking on. Too often high tech and spendy can be done cheaply and relatively easily if a bit of thinking, and asking the right questions in the right crowds, is done ahead of time. No rational planning and asking the wrong crowd will get you nowhere you aren't already at.

Same concept with assuming that just because you or someone else doesn't know or understand something that it automatically means nobody else does or ever will either. I don't want to talk to the 50 people who say I can't do something, because they don't see how it can be done by their knowledge base or standards . I want to hear from the one person who says they are all wrong and can prove it, because they have been doing for so long it's old news to them.

 

[unclejed613]

as a history nut, i get to see a lot of things like that, like the MiG-25 using vacuum tube electronics to counter EMP, or, in WWII, the germans spent tons of money and research on the V2 rocket at one end of the spectrum, versus a small aircraft with a ramjet (which is just a hollow tube) that cost about $750 to make (the V1). both of them were high tech innovations, but the V1 was super simple and cheap, and had the same purpose. often, cheap also means not as much flexibility in use, but for a single purpose use, you don't need the flexibility. the russian hypervelocity experiment could only work with ball bearings, while NASAs hypervelocity gun can fire a lot of different projectiles.

if you look at some of the gas engine books from the very early 20th century, a lot of the big industrial engines could run on just about anything in liquid or gaseous state that was flammable, and since producer gas could be made from coal, or wood gas from wood, they literally could run on any fuel.