Cratedigging

[DrG]

I got a picstart when they first came out, that brings back memories.

I also had the atmel version that came in a Vhs video cassette case, I think it had a 2313 in it.

When I "discovered" PICs, I already had experience with 6502 and Z-80 assembly language but I am not sure that I even knew that Atmel existed. The PIC instruction set and the Harvard architecture just seemed odd. No doubt because I had such a limited point of reference. What impressed me so much though, was that you didn't need to add memory as in the other two...and you didn't need to learn too many instructions.

I really had no idea what was going on and no time to really learn, but it was a very exciting time.

The other aspect that "youngins" do not appreciate is how little information was out there, relative to today. I do remember playing with the Internet in about 1987 or so, but I had no idea at all what I was doing or why. You could connect to a few Universities, see a few docs...there was gopher and a few programs to cruise around. It was awe inspiring, but I had no idea why. Not being an EE, I knew only a few people who had data books and that level of information.

Microchip, had a BBS, which had a wealth of information...at 300 baud

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

When I "discovered" PICs, I already had experience with 6502 and Z-80 assembly language but I am not sure that I even knew that Atmel existed.

Well Atmel (as a processor manufacturer) didn't exist, they came to the party fairly late on jumping on the PIC bandwagon - and as far as I'm aware, it was Atmel who first started claiming their EEPROM procssors were FLASH, an advertising con that MicroChip copied. Eventually Flash devices did appear, but originally none of them were Flash, other than in the minds of the advertising agencies.

The other aspect that "youngins" do not appreciate is how little information was out there, relative to today. I do remember playing with the Internet in about 1987 or so, but I had no idea at all what I was doing or why. You could connect to a few Universities, see a few docs...there was gopher and a few programs to cruise around. It was awe inspiring, but I had no idea why. Not being an EE, I knew only a few people who had data books and that level of information.

Microchip, had a BBS, which had a wealth of information...at 300 baud

All PIC software was DOS based as well, in fact my 'claim to fame' was creating the worlds first Windows based PIC Programmer, which I did as a learning exercise to get used to Delphi 1.0 - it was a few years later before MicroChip brought out any Windows software.

I even used to talk to the 'father of PIC programmers' David Tait on 2m FM, he created the first cheap parallel port PIC programmer, and pretty well all others were developed from that - he worked at Manchester University, and had a Trio/Kenwood 2200 or 2300, and by carefully positioning it in one corner of his lab on a couple of stools we could make contact.

Those were the days!

 

[Pommie]

and by carefully positioning it in one corner of his lab on a couple of stools we could make contact.

I wonder how he discovered that. Mind you, back then trying different positions was the norm even in radio.

Mike.

 

[Reloadron]

I remember this and I got it when these chips were very new and VERY cool. It may not have been right when they came out as I probably could not afford it (see date code? is it a 91 year? seems older from memory, but then 1991 does not seem like 28 years ago). These chips survived well and the more modern versions **broken link removed**....you can't say that about too many chips from back then...they found a niche and did it well I guess.

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ISD (Information Storage Devices). I remember when we played with one of those boards at work and circa 90, 91 sounds about right. The chip technology was developed by a gentleman named Richard (Dick) Simko who co founded the original ISD. Richard sent the board to his brother and one of my co-workers I had the pleasure of working with for over 20 years. I had the pleasure of also meeting Richard on a few occasions and remember him as just one of those fascinating people it was a pleasure to just chat with. Eventually he sold the company and moved on. I want to recall the early chipcorders were good for 20 seconds and today the technology has been well expanded. Novoton is the goto today.

Ron

 

[dr pepper]

I'm the same doc g, I learned z80 then 6502, I had a board layout using the 6502, the proc a rom, a ram, a 74ls138 as address decoder and a couple of 74ls 244's as i/o, and later a satellite board with a 6850 and a parrallel chip I cant remember.

I tried to control a full height 5 1/4 floppy with it at one stage, but it was too much for me back then, and I didnt go for a controller chip, all was attempted in software, I remember someone saying it cant be done, but then a year later the amiga came out which did just that.

The most complex project I did with the pic in .asm was a grindstone controller, it measured the diameter of the stone & controlled the speed of its drive motor so that the surface speed remained constant.

I'd rather not go back to the dark old days, if someone decides to turn the internet off we might well have to.

 

[DrG]

ISD (Information Storage Devices). I remember when we played with one of those boards at work and circa 90, 91 sounds about right. The chip technology was developed by a gentleman named Richard (Dick) Simko who co founded the original ISD. Richard sent the board to his brother and one of my co-workers I had the pleasure of working with for over 20 years. I had the pleasure of also meeting Richard on a few occasions and remember him as just one of those fascinating people it was a pleasure to just chat with. Eventually he sold the company and moved on. I want to recall the early chipcorders were good for 20 seconds and today the technology has been well expanded. Novoton is the goto today.

Ron

Terrific antecdote Ron. I was just amazed at that capability and had to have one - I'm not even sure that my student loans were paid off at the time. This one was 16 seconds and I paid $55 for the chip!! 55 freaking dollars - do you know how many Arduino promicro clones you can get for $55??

What's more, I bought the board off of a PE or RE add. I eventually did etch a few boards, but at the time, I had not.

Your memory is intact. Here is the invoice and a description.

I think I am going to power it up and see if I left my future self a message.

Edited to add: So, I did power it up. I first had to spray down and resolder those switches and the power wires had some corrosion showing, so I replaced them. It powered right up and played what I had recorded so many years ago. Sadly, I was not so creative with my message to my future self...I simply said, "This is an example of the ISD 1016...blah, blah, blah". I disappoint myself sometimes.

 

[Pommie]

I started on Z80 around 1981 and then went onto 6809 in the Dragon 32 (TRS color computer in US). Progressed to 68000 and then regressed to the Nintendo Entertainment System (NES - 6502 kinda) around 1987. First machine where code was in ROM and you had 2k of RAM for variables. Somewhere around here I have a veroboard circuit that was used as a cartridge emulator to reverse engineer the NES. Extremely interesting days.

Mike.

 

[gophert]

...waiting for version 1.2....but I am looking for investors/developers...are you interested?

I was, but not after you published Your whole product design details on the internet!

Now, I can just going to take these detailed plans to China and have them make it for me. By the way, what does this thing do?

 

[DrG]

I'm the same doc g, I learned z80 then 6502, I had a board layout using the 6502, the proc a rom, a ram, a 74ls138 as address decoder and a couple of 74ls 244's as i/o, and later a satellite board with a 6850 and a parrallel chip I cant remember.

I tried to control a full height 5 1/4 floppy with it at one stage, but it was too much for me back then, and I didnt go for a controller chip, all was attempted in software, I remember someone saying it cant be done, but then a year later the amiga came out which did just that.

The most complex project I did with the pic in .asm was a grindstone controller, it measured the diameter of the stone & controlled the speed of its drive motor so that the surface speed remained constant.

I'd rather not go back to the dark old days, if someone decides to turn the internet off we might well have to.

I started with the 6502 (KIM-1 which I still have) back in ~1981. Bought from a lab tech for US$75 - his brother worked at MOS. Got hold of an Osborne book and had a great time. Imagine...a machine that does exactly what you tell it to do...I really enjoyed exploring that. Then on to the Z-80 in the TRS80 days and I liked that chip also. Did a whole bunch of interfacing with those chips 8212, 8255 and so on. Once you figured out addressing and the in/out line, you could do a lot.

By the time the 8086/8 rolled around I transitioned from disliking segment registers to liking TurboC.

Yeah, I guess they were the dark days, but they were exciting days. I keep having to remind myself that there is no reason why that same excitement can't be found now, but to be truthful, that kind of excitement may be age-related....when you didn't know what was impossible.

 

[DrG]

By the way, what does this thing do?

It is a binary clock that ran off of the 60Hz voltage "tick" after it was stepped down with a transformer (pretty accurate actually).

 

[DrG]

Those were the days!

Seriously, I am interested...philosophically, could we not find that same excitement today? Or are we just too calcified. I think we can find "those days", but then I think that I could also make a BLT sandwich, turn on the TV and hang out with the couch...so I guess it is a toss-up

 

[unclejed613]

This one I do remember well - a TV Jammer and it really did work (although you needed to be close to the TV for maximum effect). I distinctly remember "torturing" my nephew...."The TV will not work until you go get me a coke from the kitchen!"

when i was a teenager and i wanted to watch "Creature Double Feature" on saturday afternoons, and my little brother and sister were watching cartoons, i would use my Eico RF generator to mess with the TV. i knew it was working when my brother would slap the side of the TV. after a few minutes they would give up on the TV and go out to play.

 

[dr pepper]

I started with a rockwell training aid that used a 6502 thingy, it was nothing more than a terminal.
Z80 I didnt have a 'computer', I nearly went nuts building a basic computer board, it had no video out, just a stick of 16 segment displays.
It sounds naff now, but as you sat then it was super cool, for me about 1985, all my mates had a beeb, that is for anyoine outside the Uk a Bbc model b home computer.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

While we're talking history, I started with 6502 as well, building and using a Microtan Tangerine computer, which I still have.

An old friend and radio ham (Dave G4DYT) still has his original Commodore PET with calculator style keyboard.

 

[dr pepper]

Seems a lot of folk started with the 6502.
I did some work for someone back in the 90's that for a while programmed the 6502 in hex using a memory editor, extreme.

 

[gophert]

While we're talking history, I started with 6502 as well, building and using a Microtan Tangerine computer, which I still have.

An old friend and radio ham (Dave G4DYT) still has his original Commodore PET with calculator style keyboard.

Oh no! You mean I didn't have to replace my Tangerine during the Y2K scare?

 

[DrG]

While we're talking history, I started with 6502 as well, building and using a Microtan Tangerine computer, which I still have.

An old friend and radio ham (Dave G4DYT) still has his original Commodore PET with calculator style keyboard.

Here is a pic of mine from my KIM-1:

I think that the 6502 had a huge impact. I don't think it was a great chip - little more than a 6800 knock off. It was, however, CHEAP (below is an advert from Sept. 1975 - $25) and that made it available and that meant all sorts of people would do all sorts of things with them.

In a way, I think that the Arduino UNO has had a great impact for the same reason.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Seems a lot of folk started with the 6502.
I did some work for someone back in the 90's that for a while programmed the 6502 in hex using a memory editor, extreme.

The initial Tangerine MicroTan board was like that, a hex keypad and 1K of memory, no way of saving programs, you had to manually enter it in hex every time - after of course doing manual assembly of the source code

The second board was called Tanex, and included a cassette interface, a full ASCII keyboard interface, and more space for RAM and ROM - but you still had to manually enter the hex code to download programs from tape. My next upgrade was an extension ROM that plugged in the Tanex board, and gave you tape routines in ROM, and a single pass assembler, making things a LOT easier. Following that was more ROM's, adding a 10K MicroSoft BASIC.

 

[dr pepper]

I remember tapes, still might have some, for the beeb.
It was just a little more refined, it had a bootloader.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

I remember tapes, still might have some, for the beeb.
It was just a little more refined, it had a bootloader.

To be expected, it was a much later, larger and higher spec machine, designed and made by Acorn of course.