End my elevator nightmares

[fearlesss]

Hi,

After some browsing on google I found this awsome forum !

Now ive done a quick search for this and found nothing

Heres the story.
I work at the Q1 building on the gold coast Australia and every single day I come to work I either get locked out of the carpark or i get stuck in the elevators because you need a "tag" to go to our level.

We have 7 people working in the office and only 4 key tags so unfortunatly because im second from the bottom of the ladder I miss out on a key tag

The real estate wants to charge me $45 to get a key tag made up. But i've done a bit of electronics back in school ( a long time ago now ) and thought why not try make a key tag myself

I figure the keytags just work on a frequency and all i have to do is create that frequency right ?

All the tags in the building work on the carpark but each tag only lets u elevate to the level the unit is on.

Anyone heard of this been done or know where i should start ?

 

[jpanhalt]

The tags are probably coded individually. You would need to know the coding and have a programmer to make your own tag. Moreover, a DIY tag, even if done in good conscience, would not be looked upon very favorably by your security department.

Sounds to me like $45 is a bargain compared to the real costs and risks of DIY.

John

 

[blueroomelectronics]

The expense and effort required would exceed $45
It would also make the existing keys worthless (not so secure if the instructions are on the net)

 

[john1]

I think you should start by raising this with your boss.

 

[stevez]

The ones I have used are coded, as already mentioned, individually. That way if one was lost - that tag would be ignored once reported as lost. If you were to be successful in duplicating a tag you'd then be noticed when it appears you've entered or left multiple times. It might work the first few times but after that the original owner would be suspect. I am sure one could hack in somehow but the level of effort would be significant - the penalties if caught are hopefully rather severe.

 

[jpanhalt]

If you were to be successful in duplicating a tag you'd then be noticed when it appears you've entered or left multiple times.

Some systems lock out multiple entrances or exits without a corresponding entrance/exit. That is to prevent people from sharing cards for one parking space price.

John

 

[stevez]

Agree - probably best to consider that the people who manage security systems have already established countermeasures for many situations. That doesn't mean the systems can't be fooled but I'd submit that it's just not worth the effort. Get caught and it could cost you your job - never mind the other legal penalties that might apply.

 

[jpanhalt]

I think you and I are coming from the same position. Many employees don't realize how much information is gathered on them by their employer. For example, it is quite easy to compare time cards to parking lot entrance/exit times. More than one employee has been caught falsifying records in that way.

Word to the wise: It is hard to fire someone for poor performance, but it is extremely easy to do for falsification of records. Which method do you think the employers prefer to use?

John

 

[JimB]

I work at the Q1 building on the gold coast Australia and every single day I come to work I either get locked out of the carpark or i get stuck in the elevators because you need a "tag" to go to our level.

We have 7 people working in the office and only 4 key tags so unfortunatly because im second from the bottom of the ladder I miss out on a key tag

So, to reduce the problem to the basics, the guy is locked out of the place where he is supposed to be working. 7 people and 4 keys, what is the management of this company thinking, or may be not thinking.
This is just like something out of a Dilbert cartoon.

However, the only sensible solution to the problem is a valid key from the security department.

JimB

 

[fearlesss]

Hi guys
Thanks for all your comments back so far. I think a few of you are thinking im in some security tight complex were our entry times are recorded

To answer some questions

First of all my boss knows hes the one that doesnt want to fork out the $40

We rent a holiday unit in a building and have turned it into an office. So its like say you took you family on a holiday. The desk only gives u 2 tags but ur family theirs 7 people . So when anyone wants to come up to the room you need to buzz them up as their is only 2 tags. Hopefully this makes sense

No one checks how many times we use the keys or what times we use them.



So is it still not worth my time ?

When you say they are coded, does that mean they all have a frequency code ? If I had one of the keys could i copy that code somehow by pulling it apart and duplicating the circuitry ?

 

[jpanhalt]

Look, I have a few expired entry cards, I will give you one. Will they charge less for just recording the code on it? That is truly ridiculous to charge the employee for access. I'd have another talk with my boss. It may be that no new employees have access cards as a security measure. If in fact it is just the $40, is that a place you want to work at? Find a job that values you more than $40. John

 

[ParkingLotLust]

Just beat up someone and steal their key?

 

[john1]

Hi,

I would like to know a little more about your situation please.

Heres the story.
I work at the Q1 building on the gold coast Australia and every single day I
come to work I either get locked out of the carpark or i get stuck in the
elevators because you need a "tag" to go to our level ...
... unfortunatly because im second from the bottom of the ladder I miss out
on a key tag

I feel there should be some way to work this out.

When you say they are coded, does that mean they all have a frequency code ?
If I had one of the keys could i copy that code somehow by pulling it apart
and duplicating the circuitry ?

There would be frequencies involved, but there is much more to it than that.
Sequences of pulses, codes and such, maybe information passing in and out of
the key-tag ... that sort of thing.
No you could not duplicate it, even if you made one exactly the same, because
parts inside it would be programmed after assembly.

(actually, maybe it could be done, but it would be a highly specialist job
using specialist equipment, and intimate knowledge of the system, certainly
not an amateur undertaking.)

Seven people and four key-tags.

Please expand on this: ...

All the tags in the building work on the carpark but each
tag only lets u elevate to the level the unit is on.

I would like to ponder on this, and i want clearer information.

Regards, John

 

[erosennin]

Well, you need an RFID reader and programmer, something like **broken link removed**.
With this device you can read the code off the tag, and then save it and program it to another tag.

Jaycar sells the tags so you don't need to worry about ebay for that. There is a Jaycar on Gold Coast Highway, I've seen it there lol....
**broken link removed**
**broken link removed**

This should solve your problem if you can get it going. Assuming you do use RFID...

Edit: I'd like to point out that if it is a HID or KABA system... This won't work.

 

[fearlesss]

Answers : I'm not beating up my other employee's ! their all girls

It is an awsome job and i get paid really well ! and i am a valued employee.
Its just that its not a necessity that I have a tag as their is always someone to let me in . its more of a luxury i want to have


John1

Hopefully ill make it clearer.

The tags are round little things that u just wave in front of a censor and it beeps they would be no bigger than a 20cent peice. There are 4 tags we have both the 2 boss's have one each and 2 girls who come in 10 minutes before me both have a tag which lets you into the carpark and elevator.

Their is a sensor at the carpark entrance that u swap the tag in front of and then one on the elevator. All the tags in the building open the carpark door. but each tag only takes the elevator to 1 level (which ever one it was programed for)


Once Someone is in the unit they can then buzz down the rest of the employees as they turn up during the day.

I just opening one up and inside them is a round plastic blob that would be no bigger than a 5 cent peice so the circuitry must be very very simple or really small

Hope this helps clear things up john

erosennin

Correct Jaycar is just down the road from my house,
That keyfob looks exactly like the tags we have.

is their anyway I can find out if our tags use RFID ?

However if the device to reprogram the tag is going to cost me $59 i would
be better off just buying a new one from the rental agency

 

[erosennin]

If you look on the scanner in the lift or the carpark or the rooms, it will have a brand on it.

If it looks like any of **broken link removed**, it is likely that the method I suggested won't work. If it is a generic ID system, then it will. I doubt however that they've used an elcheapo system in that building.
The finishing touches were being put on last time I was up there so I didn't have a chance to go inside, it looks pretty cool though...

Yes $59 is a bit steep, but if you end up doing more than one it's worth it...

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Answers : I'm not beating up my other employee's ! their all girls

That makes it even easier!

 

[john1]

Hi Fearless,

We have electronic security door systems here in England too, but i have not
met one like you describe.

Erosennin however seems to know exactly what you mean.

I found this description from a Marina site, it seems to be very similar to
the system you are referring to: ...


**************

Our Entrance Gates

Access to Butlers Marina is through these gates which are controlled by a
Computerised Key Tag System. You pay a deposit of €30 for each key tag in
your name. We suggest that you keep the key tag in your car and if you have
two cars put one key tag in each. (It does not help your blood pressure when
you turn up and the key tag is left at home or left
with the boat keys on the boat.)

PICTURE OF GATES HERE

How the Computerised Key Tag System Works:

When you place your keytag up close to the black keytag reader on the short
pole outside the gates, the red light will flash to green, the reader will
bleep and the gates will begin to open. Simultaineously, the computers,
both in Dublin and Carrick, will upload your name, boat name, date and time
of entry, etc.

Tips and Guidance
The keytag contains a memory chip.
Do not place the keytag near a Magnet, Microwaves, etc
Do not put it in the post as the post office have scanners which will wipe
its memory.

**************

If it is this sort of thing, then yes i think that would be RF.
You say that all the 'Key-Tags' will get you in and out of the car park,
which i think is the major problem for you.

So if you get the RFID reader/programmer unit you should be able to sort
out the arrangement for access to the car park, as this is common to all
of them.

However working the lift (elevator) might be more involved and may also
bring into play the buildings monitoring systems, such as tracking who is
in the building, times of entry and leaving, and so forth, in computers
within the building.
So if you do get it to work within the building, this may bring up some
sort of 'alert' in the security department, as it would be a 'wild card'

But since you say that others can 'buzz you up' which i guess means that
they can allow the lift (elevator) to work for you, then i guess that
using the car park is probably the main awkwardness.

It is quite possible that a 'rogue' key-tag used for car parking could
also bring up an alert to the security department, but maybe less likely
than within the building.

If you are on good terms with the security personell, then maybe you could
chat to them about it, if you do make such a key-tag, maybe they can tell
that its you, and 'clear' it or 'accept' it on the machine ... ?

See what "Erosennin" says about it, he seems to know more about this stuff
than me.

Best of luck with it,
John

 

[erosennin]

See what "Erosennin" says about it, he seems to know more about this stuff
than me.

Haha, hardly... I'm still a 'noob', much to learn. I'm a First Year Enge student...

 

[fearlesss]

It is a very cool looking building but the design was an absolute balls up.

The building it self in strong winds sways side to side a few inchs and it cracks the roof glass around the base. Which costs them i think it was 5 grand per pane of glass and their is usualy one always broken.

Unfortunatly the system is exactly what those pictures look like erosnin
Looks like im out of luck