Help! Ive been circuit-napped!

[jpanhalt]

Here is quite a lengthy pdf of so-called decapping methods:

https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/techreports/UCAM-CL-TR-630.html

That should take you to the abstract. A link to the full pdf is at the bottom.

Here are some updates:

https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/research/security/publications/

I think the answer is simple: Any lock can be picked.

John

 

[Megamox]

It's not surprising with the amount of projects going digital that securing code and implementation is becoming big business. The most interesting concept I've seen commercially was a board sandwiched between two plastic sheets about the size of a credit card. This arrangement was then glued down to the interior of the enclosure (of the same colour), so that popping off the enclosure and looking anyone might assume it was part of the case. A dummy board was then positioned on top, with an erroneous component design. Anyone trying to reverse engineer the design, might eagerly grab the board and not care too much about a few wires terminating into the case, especially when those locations were also marked 'GND PLANE'

You can always count on engineers to think outside the box, but my hat goes off to those who think INSIDE them too

Megamox

 

[Menticol]

I felt very refreshed when I read your 2012 update Megamox. What goes around comes around, at least some times.

As the other forum members said, with enough time and perseverance anything can be reverse-engineered. From a huge Boeing B-29 to a MiFare chip. The later case was an awesome example, check it out:

https://www.computerworld.com/s/art..._The_MiFare_RFID_crack_explained?pageNumber=1

 

[MrAl]

Hi,

You dont have to have the circuit blow up, what would help there is to just have some of the components burn out quickly. Once the unit burns out it's harder to reverse engineer.
And removing the part numbers means sanding or scraping the numbers off not painting...this has been mentioned already.
It really depends though on how bad the company wants to steal the design. After decapitating some programmable chips there are ways to see the programming right in the die, so programmed protection bits arent perfect either. But causing the chip to blow out could damage the die too which would make it harder to read photographically.

There's only one sure way, enclose the circuit and all parts in Kryptonite

I sent a detailed letter to Energizer once about some ideas for the design of one of their battery chargers. They sent a reply back that stated that they "could not accept" the letter as they might already have those ideas in the works. They actually sent the physical letter back, not just the reply itself. I thought that was rather amusing as the only way they could know it was a letter about design improvement was if they read it, and if they read it then they already accepted it.

 

[unclejed613]

yes that's illegal just about everywhere and dangerous. better to pot the thing, lined with lead foil to block xrays. if there's anything that uses firmware, storing the firmware on phase change memory is a good idea. soldering or desoldering temperatures erase phase change memory instantly. shaving chips may be useful in some cases, but a good engineer can figure out what a chip is by how it's used, and some larger chips have the manufacturer and part number on the silicon mask, and that can be read with xrays.

when dealing with other businesses as a designer or consultant where your inventiveness can be exploited, always get an NDA, with a provision that your ideas are YOURS. if it's a design you are selling, contract for royalties or sell it outright.... make sure the contract language is clear and unambiguous.

 

[dr pepper]

Thats some pdf, interesting.
I didnt know the '877a has anti pirate technology.
Next time I have an issue with a micro's internal logic or if I blow one then I'll get a microprobe and delve into the substrate!, mad.
Maybe I could change the output mosfets in some of my blown devices.

 

[MrAl]

yes that's illegal just about everywhere and dangerous. better to pot the thing, lined with lead foil to block xrays. if there's anything that uses firmware, storing the firmware on phase change memory is a good idea. soldering or desoldering temperatures erase phase change memory instantly. shaving chips may be useful in some cases, but a good engineer can figure out what a chip is by how it's used, and some larger chips have the manufacturer and part number on the silicon mask, and that can be read with xrays.

when dealing with other businesses as a designer or consultant where your inventiveness can be exploited, always get an NDA, with a provision that your ideas are YOURS. if it's a design you are selling, contract for royalties or sell it outright.... make sure the contract language is clear and unambiguous.

Not dangerous if done right, and only if the 'package' is opened.
We're not talking welding currents here nor explosions.

 

[Megamox]

Yes Karma gets you in the end! That paper was very interesting, it does look clear that if someone has the patience and the skill they're going to get your design at some point. The advice on the NDA is probably going to be the best in the long run, although touch wood, I've not had any troubles since this incident. Working with reputable companies, is also probably going to be another good choice. Have never strapped any exploding or shocking device inside any of my designs just yet, I must admit I'd feel awful if it hurt anyone. Side note: Didnt the guy who invented explosive blow himself up? That doesnt bode well

Perhaps I'll enclose a hand written note inside the plastic enclosure of all my designs that reads 'You could have just asked for the schematic?"

Megamox

 

[ghostman11]

some great ideas!!!! but in all honesty protecting your idea's is pretty easy, go see a lawer for an hour and get a drafted NON DISCLOSURE AGREEMENT, copyright all board layout's and designs you send them, if using micro's do a simple code protect and maybe if you wish limit the software on number of uses by a counter variable or whatever. far far simpler than trying to block xray's!! and messing with components. all that just makes you seem like a amature to large company and not to be taken seriously.
proper contracts and written agreements make you seem legit and that you have legal backup theese kind of thing's are far better at preventing theft of idea's. in your case it sounds like they saw a chance to exploit you and took it, bit of a tough break but you have learnt a priceless business lesson so go pay £250 and talk to a lawyer about getting drafts agreements drawn up and just change the details to fit each time you need them.

SIMPLES

regards jason

p.s in business the only man you can truly trust is the bloke in the shaveing mirror

 

[OlPhart]

you "sold" the prototype?

Howdy, if true, the copiers may easily believe they bought the IP as well, thereby entitling them to do whatever they want with it. Your sales contract had to state retention of IP to have a legal leg to stand on. You may open a dialog with the copiers and negotiate a royalty for support agreement. You don't seem to know what they believe they own, and you Do know the system better than anyone else.

On complex uC based projects, I deliver all the IP as part of the price. But I write in assembler, so if they burn me, I wish them well on paying for someone elses' learning curve for support. On simpler hardware, I Dremel/sanding drum the chip #s, again the reverse eng'r effort is a stupid tradeoff. G.H... <<<)))

 

[unclejed613]

the first time i ever saw shaved chips was in the 70's. i was working at a stereo shop in NC. somebody brought in a DBX compander that had died. looking inside, there were what i guessed (an educated guess, since the supply that fed many of them was 5V, and +/-15V on others)) were a bunch of TTL chips, and op amps. all of the chips were shaved, so it would have been difficult to figure out what was what. DBX had a policy of repairing the units themselves, and made it difficult for anybody to reverse engineer the device.