Looking for a sheet that resists

[jasonbe]

I wasn't suggesting that you buy a tablet and modify it, I meant you should read about how they work and consider using those methods. They wouldn't be used if they weren't cost effective. You could actually get a busted one and use the parts from it, but I just meant to imitate the methods. The most common kind uses a grid of wires, and the pen has a magnet, as you may know when you move a magnet over a wire a current is induced. You can't get a piece to a location without moving it. Then you just detect like battle ship, if wire C and wire 5 had current induced then a piece moved over grid space C5. For the optical glyph tracking code, theres a lot of user created stuff out there, but what I looked at was a C++ 6.0 library. I don't recall the name but I found it pretty easily with a Google search, and if you want another format you can probably find it.

I didn't think of modifying the game in such a way that required the pieces to maintain contact - by staying in one place or by being drug, to a surface to keep track of location information. This would be a possibility. I did come across a model that was able to keep track of multiple locations at once. I supposed that the moved piece could be identified by elimination in the program because it was not any of the stationary pieces. The game is not sophisticated enough at this time to require data lost - due to the game being bumped, to be recovered. This could be useful, but I was not thinking of any other output of the game information besides the game pieces themselves to communicate data to a user - and this information would be about status and not locations. I didn't look for a used model because I couldn't imagine one having dimensions larger than a sheet of paper - and I would like for the game surface to be between one and half - and two feet, square. Also, there is still the issue of communicating electronic information to the pieces to be displayed. As far as I know these pads are used only as input and not output devices. If anyone knows differently, please tell me - because I am not prioritizing researching these pads. I suppose the type of interactive part that I am looking for might be found in a preexisting game. However, there are so many computer games on the market that are not classified by parts that I can't imagine a productive way to start searching for one of these games to use. One reason why some of the models are cost effective might because they are produced in high volume and also have a different functionality - as far as I know.

Though it may be off subject, if anyone knows what types of abstract data types pattern recognition programs use, I would be interested. I imagine that arrays might be used - that store visual information related to the charactristics associated with the data acquisition mechanism, the shape of a screen, and/or color. However, in pattern recognition I suppose that a lot of information may not be necessary to store and maintain for representation purposes - and this might make another type of data structure useful.

 

[jasonbe]

Well, this does bring up a question (at least in my mind) of just what sort of "help" you are trying to get from it.

I wasn't going to mention this earlier but, I noticed fairly early on in this thread that you seem to have some lore of knowledge about different...how should I say...conceptual things but, no apparent desire to have them explained in detail. It all kept (keeps) leading back to the high-level conceptual stuff.

So, I'll just ask, point blank. Are we really pretty much "spinning our wheels" by trying to come up with practical info and scenarios based on fairly basic electrical and electronic theory and practice? The nuts 'n bolts of it, you might say.

Right now I am interested in relationships between resistance, the structure of materials, the distance between locations on these materials where connections to an electrical source is made, and how multiple connections might effect this relationship. I am also interested in specific materials that may be on the market in the form of sheets having these structures. I am also interested if somehow between the times when current has the greatest absolute value in AC if current can be made to travel slow enough by decreasing the amplitude and increasing the wavelength of waves so as to result in an electron movement that can be measured without sensitive equipment. I also expressed interest in other things - including the forces that culminate in water waves.

 

[jasonbe]

You forgot to mention easy to assemble and cheap.

That's true. However, I would not want to discourage someone from mentioning something that I might consider to be more easy to assemble and cheap than they did - so that a discrepency in classifications might detract from this thread. I would also not want to discourage anyone from mentioning something that was interesting on account of its cost or assembly - for the purpose of hearing what the person had to say and not excluding information that may have a value in and of itself or as a result of publication.

 

[jasonbe]

You are not these people. I can tell by some of the questions you are asking. If you did reading we would be explaining concepts to you, not walking through trivial details step-by-step. There's a difference between helping and teaching and both still require you to do your own thinking. Teaching quickly gets cumbersome on a forum, but not even that is happening here. What is happening is spoonfeeding- that's where you get an answer and take it exactly as is without attempting to expand on it in your OWN head.

I think that it is good to encourage people to do research. However, if you find that people are not catching on to what you are saying as quickly as you would like them to - or are at a different level than they are, I would consider either pointing out to them the difficulty of the subject matter - if you are absolutely certain that the information can not be described in any way in a more simplified form, accommodate your responses more, find a more encouraging way to suggest researching - some of your links were very helpful in this respect, or not reply to the posts. There are probably other options. There are many people who might have otherwise found interesting content in these posts - but did not do so because they were influenced or overwhelmed by negative comments. I hope that you take this comment constructively, because from what I can see you have a lot to offer. The fact that you come accross as an authority in electronics does not decrease the effects that your posts may have on people. Also, perhaps I have not reviewed your posts as much as I could have for specific examples of how I could better confirm to the expectations of this site. I haven't found any of your generalizations informative in this respect, however.

 

[crashsite]

Old Habits Die Hard

Right now I am interested in relationships between resistance, the structure of materials, the distance between locations on these materials where connections to an electrical source is made, and how multiple connections might effect this relationship. I am also interested in specific materials that may be on the market in the form of sheets having these structures. I am also interested if somehow between the times when current has the greatest absolute value in AC if current can be made to travel slow enough by decreasing the amplitude and increasing the wavelength of waves so as to result in an electron movement that can be measured without sensitive equipment. I also expressed interest in other things - including the forces that culminate in water waves.

I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt. I really did. Bbut, you're back to going in circles again. Asking questions, in seeming great detail (that have virtually no detailed at all) and that you know can't be answered.

Okay, so I tipped my hand and you responded by coming up with a different "next step". Time to pull the plug on this one, I think. But, thanks for the lesson.

 

[think_ed]

Game Piece tracking using a camera...

Just another line in a confusing discussion.

There are lots of methods for using a camera to track game piece locations.

https://figment.cse.usf.edu/~sfefilat/data/papers/ThBCT9.17.pdf


or patents for game board detection.

**broken link removed**

 

[jasonbe]

I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt. I really did. Bbut, you're back to going in circles again. Asking questions, in seeming great detail (that have virtually no detailed at all) and that you know can't be answered.

Okay, so I tipped my hand and you responded by coming up with a different "next step". Time to pull the plug on this one, I think. But, thanks for the lesson.

Is seems to me as though crashsite has discontinued responding to this post. However, if anyone would explain to me why crashsite may have thought that my questions can't be answered - and why crashsite thought that crashsite proposed a solution that I should invest in, I would appreciated it.

 

[jasonbe]

Just another line in a confusing discussion.

There are lots of methods for using a camera to track game piece locations.

https://figment.cse.usf.edu/~sfefilat/data/papers/ThBCT9.17.pdf


or patents for game board detection.

**broken link removed**

I am not ready to use pattern recognition for this project.

I may look through the patent list that you provided. In terms of finding a solution, I would prefer a device that measured locations continuously rather than discretely. Maybe there are some patented devices like this - and maybe there are some materials that offered the resistance that I am looking for in a new materials claim. However, I would know that I was learning about something that probably exists if I was learning about materials - and not necessarily so if I was researching designs. Thank you for your input. Let me know if you come across a device that makes continuous electronic measurements of the kind that I am looking for on a material resembling a plane.

 

[crashsite]

Is seems to me as though crashsite has discontinued responding to this post. However, if anyone would explain to me why crashsite may have thought that my questions can't be answered - and why crashsite thought that crashsite proposed a solution that I should invest in, I would appreciated it.

Okay, I'm breaking my own rule. I should not have said that the questions can't be answered. I should have said that there are no answers to, Jasonbe's questions that he will or wants to accept. There's been some good, clear answeres in this thread and, as I've said before, I've gotten some use from it. Unfortuantely, I can't think of any useful information that's come from you. Sorry, but your posts keep circling and pointedly avoiding any and all the answers and suggestions for ways to get the answers that have been given.

In response to your challenge, I can't say that I've suggested that you "invest" in anything except a little research and experimentation and, of course, collecting some common electrical components (which, by the way, can easily be gleaned from junked equipment at little or no monetary cost).

So, now I'll conditionally pull the plug. I personally think it's a rather cowardly act to comment and not allow response but, the condition is that the response needs to have enough substance to make it worthy of the continuation. Hey, I wont be offended if you choose not to respond or just continue to circle the drain.

 

[jasonbe]

Okay, I'm breaking my own rule. I should not have said that the questions can't be answered. I should have said that there are no answers to, Jasonbe's questions that he will or wants to accept. There's been some good, clear answeres in this thread and, as I've said before, I've gotten some use from it. Unfortuantely, I can't think of any useful information that's come from you. Sorry, but your posts keep circling and pointedly avoiding any and all the answers and suggestions for ways to get the answers that have been given.

In response to your challenge, I can't say that I've suggested that you "invest" in anything except a little research and experimentation and, of course, collecting some common electrical components (which, by the way, can easily be gleaned from junked equipment at little or no monetary cost).

So, now I'll conditionally pull the plug. I personally think it's a rather cowardly act to comment and not allow response but, the condition is that the response needs to have enough substance to make it worthy of the continuation. Hey, I wont be offended if you choose not to respond or just continue to circle the drain.

I'm not sure what you mean by saying that there are answers to my questions that I don't want to accept. I imagine that you are either referring to the parts that I am looking for or concepts about AC and DC.

I have heard some good ideas about materials that convert electricity into heat and light and that in doing so may produce the type of resistances that I am looking for. The drawbacks of some of these materials may include that they are part of trade secrets, require tools that I don't have for assembly, can not be applied evenly so as to produce a consistent resistance, are made of useful materials but are coated or in another way altered so that their surface may not be conducting, or produce too much light or heat for a type of game board. The laminate is my best lead - I am only guessing that it had to be applied in liquid form because the surfaces that I imagine that it is applied to are not flat. I would like to find something sold in sheets, however, and I am still hoping for this. I can't imagine that out of all of the materials found in nature and produced artificially that there are none that offer the type of resistances that I am looking for.

The other assumption that I am making is that you think that I am not willing to consider new concepts. If there is a concept related to materials not providing resistance as a function of distance, then it is not a concept that I am ignoring but one that I thought of myself and that I am not sure of and that I therefore don't want to abandon possibilities for my project because of. One of my standing questions is if and how electron movement to the sides of a path defined as the shortest distance between two electrical connections on a sheet differs from the path mentioned, how these different paths relate to a function of resistance of materials per unit distance, and if this function is linear. Path might not be the best word because it may only describe DC and not AC - if I understand them correctly. Another question is if the amplitude of AC can be decreased enough - and perhaps if the frequency AC can be decreased enough, so as to result in an electron movement that is slow enough and changing slowly enough to be measurable with insensitive equipment.

There are other questions that I have asked in posts in this thread - including one about water waves, but I will not ask you to research them. Instead - or additionally, I am asking for you to tell me what is it about the specific questions that I have repeating in this particular reply - and what is it about any response that I have made to answers to any questions that I have repeat in this reply, that you find unsatisfactory? What answers haven't I given appropriate consideration to?

I was under the impression that you thought that I should accept at least one answer as final. I may have misinterpreted what you said, but because I may be using information from this site to build a project, accepting one of the answers would mean investing in the materials associated with that answer. At this time I would rather learn some things about electronics theoretically and then use this information to build a game rather then purchasing items to learn the theory myself in addition to purchasing the items that I could use to build the game. Before I even consider the cost of components, I have to consider what their use would be - for experimentation, a product, or something that I plan on using in the future.

Now it appears to me that you are suggesting that I do more research about my questions. However, what would be wrong with considering this site a place to do research? I'm pretty sure that providing information is not a requirement for asking questions at this site, and asking questions isn't in any way inappropriate at this site.

I am asking that you address specifics so that I can take what you are saying constructively. If you think that I am not capable of responding reasonably to specifics, then I am asking you to consider that you may be wrong. Finally, please explain how something constructive can be gathered from your last paragraph.

 

[blueroomelectronics]

Ever heard of paragraphs? Reading one big blob of a paragraph is not fun.

 

[jasonbe]

Was there a post about AC? I'm wondering why its waveform is representable with a sine wave. Does it naturally occur that way or is it modified to be like that. First, I want to make sure that my thinking is correct. Is the wave more a measure of the velocity of electrons rather than the density of electrons? There seem to me to be a lot of functions that repeat, can be used to describe maximum and minimum velocities, and that represent intervals during which velocity is equal to zero. Why a sine wave? Do we just not have a better shape, or is there something special about a sine wave?

 

[jasonbe]

I'm still really interested in any material that might convert electricity into mechanical movement that is so small or slow that it couldn't be seen or felt on a sheet. Has anyone ever heard of such a thing? It could prevent a game from generating heat or light or other effects of the resistance that might be used to measure distances.

 

[blueroomelectronics]

My favorite episode of Red Dwarf had a toaster with an IQ of 2000 but it was obsessed with toast.

 

[jasonbe]

My favorite episode of Red Dwarf had a toaster with an IQ of 2000 but it was obsessed with toast.

I hadn't thought about doing this anytime soon directly, but maybe the statuses of some of the game pieces could represent different types of directedness and interconnectedness of thought.

 

[crashsite]

A Compulsion Maybe?

I'm not sure what you mean by saying that there are answers to my questions that I don't want to accept. I imagine that you are either referring to the parts that I am looking for or concepts about AC and DC.....

None of that entire tirade suggests that you have made any effort to do anything but make another desparate attempt at cajoling someone into giving you some more attention.

"Substance" is when you show that you've at least attempted to take some of the information and/or advice taht's been offered and tried to actually understand and make use of it rather than figuring out ways to re-spin your responses to feign that you just don't understand even the most basic-est basics of electricity (and, of course, have no intention of learning).

What I truly don't (I suppose can't) understand is what someone like yourself "gets" out of doing this kind of stuff. It might be interesting to at least hear the lies you may be telling yourself as a justification...or, maybe more scary, the truth about why you do it. Seriously, I'd be interested to hear it...which is kind of strange since I'm generally rather uninterested in this sort of behavior. Heck, I don't even watch, Dr. Phil.

 

[jasonbe]

None of that entire tirade suggests that you have made any effort to do anything but make another desparate attempt at cajoling someone into giving you some more attention.

"Substance" is when you show that you've at least attempted to take some of the information and/or advice taht's been offered and tried to actually understand and make use of it rather than figuring out ways to re-spin your responses to feign that you just don't understand even the most basic-est basics of electricity (and, of course, have no intention of learning).

What I truly don't (I suppose can't) understand is what someone like yourself "gets" out of doing this kind of stuff. It might be interesting to at least hear the lies you may be telling yourself as a justification...or, maybe more scary, the truth about why you do it. Seriously, I'd be interested to hear it...which is kind of strange since I'm generally rather uninterested in this sort of behavior. Heck, I don't even watch, Dr. Phil.

No one can help but attract attention by making posts to this site. Attention is what is invovled in reading any posts at this site - from the most basic to the most advanced, from the most paraphrased to the most composed. Showing that my posts are inappropriate therefore would seem to involve more to me than showing that I am attracting attention. What you call a tirade is an effort on my part to get you to show this - by mentioning specifics and not generalizations that I have found to be and may still be inaccurate and unfounded.

To me, the way you use the word substance is just another instance of how you are making unsubstantiated generalizations. At least, this is my belief at this time. I an open to suggestions about how I can learn better and more, but until you point out specifics - such as what information and advice I should have followed up on and how, I am at a loss to understand how your post could be useful for me or anyone trying to evaluate the merits of this thread. What indicates to your that I am not doing enough in these or any respects?

What you call re-spinning I indentify as exploring problems in more detail and finding alternatives - or repeating questions so that people who are new to this thread won't pass over them because of the length of posts having the nature of yours. If you decide to respond, I am asking that you replace your attacks on my "general understanding" and willingness to learn with a chronology of specific things or at least one specific thing that I have written that gives you any justification whatsoever in your making your claims - and some electronic theory to back it up. Would you classify what dialect "basic -est" belongs to?

If you'd like to know what I "gets out" of this site, you'll have to rephrase your question. If you do reply, please address some of the questions that I have asked throughout this thread in such a way that it is electronic in nature.

Your post may make more sense to people - who don't like Dr. Phil, than myself.

 

[jasonbe]

I'm not really sure how to ask this question - maybe someone can understand what I'm getting on to and help me. I asked it earlier - about sine waves. How accurately does a sine wave represent AC? Something else came to mind when thinking about modeling - can every smooth curve be represented mathematically? I suppose the question might have something to do with the consistency of the waveform of AC, the type of conductors used, and theory. What factors are involved?

 

[jasonbe]

I think that someone mentioned earlier that the relationship between resistance as a result of material is linear to units of distance of the material where electronic connections are made. This does and does not make sense to me. A lot of people have been criticizing me as not being qualified or independent enough to post at this site. Whether or not this is accurate or not, I will try to be as specific as possible so as to give people an opportunity to understand what I am saying and perhaps correct any misconceptions that I may have. If an electron is being transported acoss a wire, and the molecules of the same type are uniformly distributed through the wire, then it would make sense to me that - because of what someone mentioned earlier about band gap or orbital levels or whatever it is called, because the distance that the electrons need to be raised to the conduction band - which causes resistance, are the same all along the wire, that the resistance per unit distance would therefore be linear because the sum of all of those discrete units of distance that the electrons need to be raised are linear per unit distance along the wire. However, does the same model apply to sheets? In other words, given the shortest distance between two electronic connections on a sheet, as the amount of elctricity is raised from less than, equal to, to greater than that required to raise electrons to the conduction band, what is the relationship between how much electricity travels directly between the two points - corresponding to where electrical connections are made, and longer routes to the sides? I imagine if the connections are far enough apart on an infinitely sized sheet, than the electrons introduced at one connection might never make it to the other. In this case, if the sheet has a uniform composition, the electrons invovled in DC might travel outward in all directions equally - perhaps in an imaginary circle. However, as the connections are hypotheticlly moved closer until and after electricity flows through the circuit, how would the shape of this circle change and relate to a point corresponding to the other electronic connection? Would the range of angles at which different amounts of electricty was flowing through the sheet to the cathode increase or decrease? What would the relationship between the directness of this path, resistance offered, and distance of the electronic connections be?

 

[jasonbe]

What I truly don't (I suppose can't) understand is what someone like yourself "gets" out of doing this kind of stuff. It might be interesting to at least hear the lies you may be telling yourself as a justification...or, maybe more scary, the truth about why you do it. Seriously, I'd be interested to hear it...which is kind of strange since I'm generally rather uninterested in this sort of behavior. Heck, I don't even watch, Dr. Phil.

This isn't something that I want to get into the habit of doing because I'd like to regard this site as a place where people discuss electronics and not what what people may be "like" in the sense that you wrote. However, because you have made more than one comment that might have been describing my psychology - especially repeated comments about motives related to getting attention, I would like to address one of your methods. You seem - at least to me - and I'm not sure how much thought you put into it, that you distinguish between "lies" that I might be telling myself and the "truth" of why I post to this site. To tell a lie, as far as I understand it, implies that one must first know a truth that they intend to keep from themselves or others. If, by this, you are talking about some advanced knowledge that I have of electronics that I am keeping from others, then what would be my motive for doing this? If, differently, you may be talking about the possibility that I believe that I know enough about electronics to post at this site - but really don't, do you think that I would have a level of awareness that enabled me to consider myself as not being qualified to post at this site in the first place? Then again, you may be thinking that I am trying to convince myself and others that I have enough information to understand nature in the form of electronics - but really don't. But this is the type of understanding that everyone has to risk that they might have and can learn more about - and in this respect I don't think constitutes a lie.

The fact that you believe that I am lying would seem to suggest to me that you have a clue of what the lie is. Perhaps this is the truth that you mention. If this is the case, then you may be being rhetorical - and want me to guess about what you believe. From my experience, I don't expect you to be direct immediately - or at all. But even if you are being rhetorical I would like to call your attention to the word lie - that I don't think that you are using the word appropriately.