Thanks SE. I have a circuit diag all ready to go (like you said, xtal, pull down resistors and transistors - and relays) . trouble is, I want to etch a shiney nice PCB, but when I use PCB wiz or similar, I have trouble making the tracks (so they don't run over each other) - I'm looking for software to help me. I want to be able to design it in a sim so the PCB s/w will route if for me...