Rookie needs solar, battery, laptop and video charging advice for unsuported biketrip

[summitville]

Nomad-In-Exile, If you use a 40 Watt Solar Panel at 90% efficiency with a Xantrex Inverter at 90% efficiency to recharge AA NiCd Batteries at 90% efficiency (those are absolute BEST conditions by the way) that will give you enough power recharge just 6 @ AA 3000mah NiCd Batteries in 1 hour.

Now, you say you need to recharge ...
A) Video Camera batteries (used 2-3 hours nightly - how many & what size batteries?)
B) Digital Camera batteries (100-200 photos nightly - how many & what size batteries?)
C) Laptop batteries (used 1 hour per day, 30 watts ?)
D) Black Light batteries (used 2-3 hours nightly - 3 @ AA NiCd)
E) Cell Phone battery (used 30 minutes/day - 2 Watts - insignificant)

Your plan is to recharge all batteries each day / every day in 4 hours from 10:00AM - 2:00PM?

Can you currently recharge the ...
A) Video Camera batteries in 1 hour using a ~30 Watt charger?
B) Digital Camera batteries in 1 hour using a ~30 Watt charger?
C) Laptop Battery in 1 hour using a ~30 Watt charger - (most likely) YES!
D) Blacklight flashlight (3@AA) batteries in 30 minutes using a ~30 Watt charger - YES!
E) Cell phone in 30 minutes using a 2 Watt charger - YES!

There is your entire 4 Hour Charging Window - nothing else needs recharged?

So, if you answer "YES" to A & B then a 40 Watt Solar Panel might just work.

Just be carefull using the Xantrex 400 because fully loaded (320W) it can can drain that 10AH Battery in just 20 minutes!
Then it will take you 6 Hours the next day just to recharge your main 10AH Battery.
You must keep your Xantrex Power draw lower (on avg) than the power the Solar Panel can deliver.
With a single 30 Watt Battery Charger / AC Adapter connected, I think the Solar Panel can "keep up".
Also, make sure all of your Battery Chargers / AC Adapters work properly (no overheating, etc)
with the Modified Sine Wave AC output of the Xantrex Inverter BEFORE you leave for your trip.
Always shut-off the Xantrex inverter when not in use.

You must make sure everything gets fully charged by 2:00PM, daily.
Do you have a spare battery pack for each device?
A 40 Watt Solar Panel may be do-able.
The last thing you need is a dead Video Camera, dead Digital Camera, dead Computer or dead UV Flashight.
Heck, you could Dry-Run at home to make sure 4 Hours of "Charge Time" is enough for everything.
If you have the time and the sun I would recharge everything fully every day.
You never know what tomorrow may bring.

You mentioned conencting to an Internet Website (Blog?) and Email.
How are you connecting to the Internet during the trip?

 

[Nomadinexile]

Nomad-In-Exile, If you use a 40 Watt Solar Panel at 90% efficiency with a Xantrex Inverter at 90% efficiency to recharge AA NiCd Batteries at 90% efficiency (those are absolute BEST conditions by the way) that will give you enough power recharge just 6 @ AA 3000mah NiCd Batteries in 1 hour.

Now, you say you need to recharge ...
A) Video Camera batteries (used 2-3 hours nightly - how many & what size batteries?)
B) Digital Camera batteries (100-200 photos nightly - how many & what size batteries?)
C) Laptop batteries (used 1 hour per day, 30 watts ?)
D) Black Light batteries (used 2-3 hours nightly - 3 @ AA NiCd)
E) Cell Phone battery (used 30 minutes/day - 2 Watts - insignificant)

Your plan is to recharge all batteries each day / every day in 4 hours from 10:00AM - 2:00PM?

Can you currently recharge the ...
A) Video Camera batteries in 1 hour using a ~30 Watt charger?
B) Digital Camera batteries in 1 hour using a ~30 Watt charger?
C) Laptop Battery in 1 hour using a ~30 Watt charger - (most likely) YES!
D) Blacklight flashlight (3@AA) batteries in 30 minutes using a ~30 Watt charger - YES!
E) Cell phone in 30 minutes using a 2 Watt charger - YES!

There is your entire 4 Hour Charging Window - nothing else needs recharged?

So, if you answer "YES" to A & B then a 40 Watt Solar Panel might just work.

Just be carefull using the Xantrex 400 because fully loaded (320W) it can can drain that 10AH Battery in just 20 minutes!
Then it will take you 6 Hours the next day just to recharge your main 10AH Battery.
You must keep your Xantrex Power draw lower (on avg) than the power the Solar Panel can deliver.
With a single 30 Watt Battery Charger / AC Adapter connected, I think the Solar Panel can "keep up".
Also, make sure all of your Battery Chargers / AC Adapters work properly (no overheating, etc)
with the Modified Sine Wave AC output of the Xantrex Inverter BEFORE you leave for your trip.
Always shut-off the Xantrex inverter when not in use.

You must make sure everything gets fully charged by 2:00PM, daily.
Do you have a spare battery pack for each device?
A 40 Watt Solar Panel may be do-able.
The last thing you need is a dead Video Camera, dead Digital Camera, dead Computer or dead UV Flashight.
Heck, you could Dry-Run at home to make sure 4 Hours of "Charge Time" is enough for everything.
If you have the time and the sun I would recharge everything fully every day.
You never know what tomorrow may bring.

You mentioned conencting to an Internet Website (Blog?) and Email.
How are you connecting to the Internet during the trip?

Now that I have gotten a better idea of cost and solar panel wattage needed, I've scaled down a whole lot.

My new goal is to Solar Charge (Or better yet use a 100Ah lifePO4)

1. 3AA batteries Every Two days, 3 recharge cycles, before I hit AC mainline for 3 hours or so.
2. 1 NBL4 every 2 days, for 3 recharge cyles, before I hit mainline AC for 3 hours or so.

IF I can do this with the LifePo4, This will do for now. Later, if I get some work or some of my art cells, I can work on getting more.

I really want to do something as "low-profile" as possible. I'm going to be riding across some of americas poorest regions along the border. I'm going to be in the middle of nowhere, unarmed. If I have a bunch of stuff, and wires and panels et al; I will be an fairly "easy" target. I'm scrappy and what not, but 3 dudes show up with hand guns and it's all gone. So the smallest least units I can charge, the better. Same goes for charging at waffle house. If I have all that equipment, and all those wires, it'll be a mess.

How's the above sound to you though? Thanks, ryan

 

[Oznog]

Well, the LiFePO4 is unfortunately not quite off-the-shelf tech. I'm thinking of the bike packs they sell out of China on eBay. They take quite a few weeks to arrive based on normal shipping. Usually they're configured as 24v,36v,or 48v, but a lot of the sellers say you can contact them to have them make a different configuration. So I think they'll do 12v. Not many places in the USA sell LiFePO4 at all, and they're much more in terms of $/storage capacity.

But the thing is the lighter weight and higher performance of LiFePO4 (or liPo) is so much better, and your task is pretty weight-critical yet requires significant power.

My main concern there is the slightly different charging voltage of LiFePO4. That's troubling- if it's above the Max Power Point of the solar panel, the panel's output will be vastly reduced. That would suck. I didn't think about that.

Just be carefull using the Xantrex 400 because fully loaded (320W) it can can drain that 10AH Battery in just 20 minutes!

Actually, NO. Not if it's lead-acid. Lead acid loses usable capacity at high rates, and I meant to mention that earlier. A 10AH batt... if you drain it in less than 5 hours (at 2A), you're going to note significantly less capacity. Mfgs sometimes show a chart. Lithium types don't run into that until obscenely high rates you won't be using.

Ability to take 80 pictures everyday minimum with 6mp Cannon Digital Elph SD630 with a battery that says 3.7V 760mAh(Li-ion) NB4L? Statistics I find say 160 shot battery life. So that battery would need charged every two days.

OK, 2.8W-hr in the batt, about 5W-hr out of the panel. Yay! Yes, a 24W panel CAN do this sort of thing. My pessimistic estimate for a 24W panel was 96W-hr/day.

NiMH doesn't really dim much in a flashlight as it runs down. But I'd strongly recommend you switch to a decent 18650 lithium flashlight. The runtime is much better and so much better performance. And the charge cycle efficiency is WAY better. Stuff's so cheap at DealExtreme, it's hard to beat.

 

[Nomadinexile]

Wahoo! 2.8W-hr battery charged 3x=8.4W-hrs needed for Camera. AA batteries, I'm finding different numbers. Rechargeable AA's are 1.2V as opposed to 1.5. Unsure how that will effect the A49.

But lets assume it's fine. And lets go higher side, and say 2500mAh. Charging half of each of 3 batteries every day I got 4.5W-hrs each charge, X3 charges=13.5W-hrs

So total W-hrs for these two most important items should equal basically 22W-hrs.

That's nothing for a lifePo4. I see them online. I can get one. But charging from wall120V into a 3.2V LifePo? Is that okay? Then what about from 3.2V into 1.2V or the 3.7 camera battery? How would I transfer it? Just wire wraps through a controller? Or do I have to run it through 12V attachments? This is a lot tougher than I thought it would be. If I didn't need a computer for hopefully some business and communication, I'm to the point where I'd take a 35mm. thanks again, ryan

btw, I think I've seen a 12V LifePo4, but I may have been mistaken. r

I'm trying to avoid the solar panel if possible. If I can charge a battery, and not have to leave the panel out all the time, that would be good. I've been reconsidering everything as this and other conversations drag on, and I think that carrying a huge solar panel spread on the side of the highway for 4 hours, or the back of the bike all day (in my shadow half the time as I ride west, will just mark me as a target for robbery. No one is going to assume I am riding with a 3 foot long Solar panel for just a flashlight. They will know there are electronics around. Heck, that panel is steep. If I can charge one bad battery in 3 hours once a week while I have coffee, I'm golden. Good to go. It's the voltage differences I am worried about though. *Not that my worry is based on knowledge, but it seems like with this electricity stuff, if it's not just right, it's not right at all. How did we make it to the moon 40 years ago? Energy!

 

[Nomadinexile]

Hypothetically, I could get smaller but a few Lifepo's and connect them for a higher voltage right? 3.2x3=9.6. 3.2x4=12.8. Is this in range? Could I charge them as one as well? Also, they have one's with much higher voltages, like 24. What's the possibility of splitting the Volts into two 12V? I could charge AA's and Camera batteries off one each line at the same time. Sorry if that doesn't make any sense. But eventually I am going to find a solution.


This is a Brunton device. As I read it, it has enough juice for me around 72-hrs. Pretty low pro. What do you think? I've seen them around $300. But for that, I can get a 300W-hr Lifepro-4. So why or why not? Thanks!

https://www.brunton.com/product.php?id=605

 

[Oznog]

Just look on eBay for LiFePO4.

Well, the LiFePO4 cost overshadows any panel cost. Although it may appear less... visible. In fact the ~$400 Chinese LiFePO4 packs are often duct-taped into an assembly and look like crap not worth stealing.

Now as long as the LiFePO4 was not damaged (running it down below 2.5v per cell will cause serious damage), you can expect to recover at LEAST half the initial battery cost by reselling. LiFePO4 is a premium item. Myself included, I'd give you half for sure. Used lead-acid batts, on the other hand, aren't worth the shipping. That discharge protection, that's got me concerned- I know the bike packs with "controllers" protect against overcharging, but I doubt they protect against overdischarging and that might be a real problem.

Yeah all your device batts will need chargers. You can't just "wire them in" to the main batt. 12v chargers will probably be more efficient than an inverter+110v charger. 110v chargers aren't designed with great efficiency in mind so they go the cheapest route. And the inverter has that no-load current to worry about. But it's hard to say.

To be honest, I'm having a hard time picturing this. Living in Austin, I've driven I-10 out west to El Paso many times. There's a series of long, brutal hills and there are very long stretches with nothing in between. A peak-condition biker with a high-tech bike wouldn't be a problem, but with a more utility-grade bike carrying this much gear, I'm having trouble picturing that. Did you mean 6 gal of water (48 lbs) or 6 lbs?

Because I'd picture, I dunno, about 40 lbs of gear total before it's notably encumbering, and 60 lbs is just way too much for such a long trek on two wheels. And the balance problems could make it dangerous. For these questions, I'd suggest you contact cross-country bikers who can tell you for real what will work and what won't.

 

[Oznog]

Hypothetically, I could get smaller but a few Lifepo's and connect them for a higher voltage right? 3.2x3=9.6. 3.2x4=12.8. Is this in range? Could I charge them as one as well? Also, they have one's with much higher voltages, like 24. What's the possibility of splitting the Volts into two 12V? I could charge AA's and Camera batteries off one each line at the same time. Sorry if that doesn't make any sense. But eventually I am going to find a solution.


This is a Brunton device. As I read it, it has enough juice for me around 72-hrs. Pretty low pro. What do you think? I've seen them around $300. But for that, I can get a 300W-hr Lifepro-4. So why or why not? Thanks!

Brunton Solo&#153 7.5

ALL 12v LiFePO4 batts are made of 4x ~3v cells (full charge is about 3.2v). Sometimes the cells are made from multiple smaller cells in parallel to multiply their AH value, but always 4x in series to make 12v. To parallel cells, they need to be identical.

The 36v ones are 12x in series, and yes we can rewire them into a 12v with 3x the AH capacity. A fine idea. In fact, like I said, the Chinese mfgs offer to reconfigure these as needed when they make them; 90% of the cost is the cells themselves and assembly ain't much. In fact when I threw out a price for you, it was the total selling price with shipping for a 24v, 20AH pack with an assumption that we'd rewire it as a 12v 40AH.

However, the charging of a bigger AH pack will be slower, and the protection circuit may have to be redesigned if a more powerful charger were applied. You'd be hard pressed to find a charger above 5A peak, and "finishing" a batt is a slower process. So I'm saying if you had a 40AH batt, the charger would need 8 hrs in theory but what really happens is you'd use 5A for the first 6 hrs, then it slows down and you can either take off early or wait another 4-6 hrs to finish the last part of the charge and "top it off".

Charging 2 packs independently is possible, and if you're only able to get 5A chargers, will go twice as fast. A bit more tricky to use, though.

 

[Nomadinexile]

~$400 Chinese LiFePO4 packs are often duct-taped into an assembly and look like crap not worth stealing.



To be honest, I'm having a hard time picturing this. Living in Austin, I've driven I-10 out west to El Paso many times. There's a series of long, brutal hills and there are very long stretches with nothing in between. A peak-condition biker with a high-tech bike wouldn't be a problem, but with a more utility-grade bike carrying this much gear, I'm having trouble picturing that. Did you mean 6 gal of water (48 lbs) or 6 lbs?

To the first part, sounds great. Anything that looks nice is a target. The bike while not very expensive relatively looks nice, and that is bad enough.

To the second part, the six gallons is for a predetermined route with supply access along the way. This is a for a practice week or two trip in the same general starting direction. When I hit the road for real, I am planning on carrying a minimum of 10 gallons=70 lbs. I figure I will have about 50 lbs of gear and food. Another 30 in batteries apparently. I'm counting on at least 150 sometimes. I doubt I'm going to leave out of long stretches without 15 gallons. But well see when that comes.

I've already carried 150 on the back. It's pretty easy on the flats, I was in higher gears once I got rolling. I know I will be going slow. I'm planning on 5mph. Most likely slower uphill, and much faster down. Even unloaded I get momentum quick on this beast. So it will be all about the breaks going down hill, crazy as it sounds. I'm gonna be like a semi with 2 wheels, blinkers going up, and Watch Out Below coming down. Just another reason the panels scare me. I think I will have to get hard (pelican?) cases for them, otherwise they are going to get demolished. Battery and computer will have same, but they will be a heck of a lot cheaper that the big cases that are hundreds of dollars! But going so slow, is going to require me to be in the saddle 12 hours a day. That's no bathroom, food, cigarette rolling (I will be smoking and riding), oh, and scorpion hunting, photographing, and sleeping. Hence my wariness of charging for over 4 hours.

I feel like a mime stuck in a box. Except it's real. <insert me banging my head against the wall here> Phew. r

 

[Oznog]

Where are you gonna be sleeping here? I-10 rest stops? They don't allow setting up a tent, and you won't be able to sleep on the bike like you can in a van. In general it's risky to just pull off and bivouac near the side of the road. That's all private property and on a practical level, much of it lacks any form of cover which could reasonably conceal a temporary campsite. There are a few public campgrounds out there but they're more than 1 day's ride from one to the next. And they're not free either.

Another note, if you're working that hard, you need significantly more food than you're used to eating. You won't get the kind of energy you need if you're not eating enough, fat calories are slow to use.

I'm just not seeing how you can carry 150lbs on a bike over distance. The brakes may not even be able to stop you on the downhill. I think you need like a trike to hold this sort of load. Again, I think you need to contact a group which does bike treks to discuss what's possible on the bike front. I can only really claim authority over electrical questions.

Plus, there's also a good question- I know you've got this picture in your mind of the Ute- but a motorcycle will definitely not only be more practical but easily cheaper. I don't know what to tell ya there because I know this is a dream to you and simply "getting there quick and efficiently" was never the point. I do entirely respect that. I just wanna make sure this isn't going to be something you end up having to abort entirely 2 days into it if the reality of it falls apart.

Why don't you make the trip on a riding mower like a normal person? (I'm a big fan of The Straight Story)

 

[Nomadinexile]

Death Valley or Death, here I come.

 

[Nomadinexile]

Nevermind.

 

[Nomadinexile]

Forget it, thanks

 

[Nomadinexile]

Well folks, it's been fun. Thanks for everyone's help. I think I am going to buy a trumpet instead. I thought I could at least charge or store up 24 watt/hours a week or so, or store and redeliver that same energy through batteries. But from what I understand on here, to get 20 something watt hours a week off a $600 set up on a bike is impossible. So I leave the photography to someone with a car. Oh, I'm going to have the camera anyway, but I will just have to pass on picture after picture. but such is life right? This has been frustrating as all get out. I know my needs are unique, but there has to be a better solution out there besides spending $10,000. 24 watt hours was one estimate I came up with towards the end, of my needs. And there is nothing that will work besides the old bike hub work out machine? Didn't we go to the moon 50+ years ago? And yet, I can't store or collect 24 watt/hours a week for $600? This world is backwards. Japan has toilet seats that message you while you use them. And yet, I can't find a battery to take out for a week at a time to charge up a camera battery 3x? Nutters. If any of you on here work for a battery company, tell your company they stink. 24 w/hrs. Really? If they can't do 24 w/hrs for under a hundred lbs and $600 they aren't exactly cutting edge anything. Electrons are more problems than they are worth. Thanks again, r

 

[summitville]

A $370.00, 7 pound, 7 Day, 38 Watt-Hours per day, No Solar Panel solution ...

QTY 1 @ LiFePo4 Smart Fast Charger, $22.00, 11 ounces
https://www.batteryspace.com/smartcharger30afor128v4cellslifepo4batterypack110-240vac.aspx

QTY 7 @ 38WHr LiFePo4 12.8V Battery Pack, 13 ounces, $46.00 = (5.6 lbs & $322.00)
LiFePO4 18650 Battery: 12.8V 3000 mAh (Side by Side, 38.4Wh, 7A rate )

QTY 1 @ 150 Watt Inverter, $25.00, 11 ounces
**broken link removed**

Total Power = 38 WHr per Day for a Week or 38WHr every other day for two weeks.
Total Cost = $360.00
Total Weight = 7 lbs

Charge all 7 LiPo Battery Packs before leaving.
That gives you 7, maybe 14, days before needing any AC Power to recharge any LiPo Packs.
You can charge one LiPo Battery Pack in approx one hour whenever AC is available.
Your Notebook Computer should last you a week at 1 hour use per day without any recharge.

You might even be able to go 2 full weeks without AC recharge if ...
a) You only need to recharge your video camera, digital camera and Flashlight every other day
b) You only use the notebook for 30 minutes per day.

I think that is very possible.

You already have Rechargable AA Batteries, AA Batt. Chargers and AC Adapters for your Video Camera, Digital Camera, Notebook and Cell Phone. Right?

Does this meet your requirements of less than $600?
And it is less than 7 Lbs!

OK ?

 

[Nomadinexile]

A $370.00, 7 pound, 7 Day, 38 Watt-Hours per day, No Solar Panel solution ...

QTY 1 @ LiPo Smart Fast Charger, $22.00, 11 ounces
**broken link removed**

QTY 7 @ 38WHr LiFePo4 12.8V Battery Pack, 13 ounces, $46.00 = (5.6 lbs & $322.00)
LiFePO4 18650 Battery: 12.8V 3000 mAh (Side by Side, 38.4Wh, 7A rate )

QTY 1 @ 150 Watt Inverter, $25.00, 11 ounces
**broken link removed**

Total Power = 38 WHr per Day for a Week or 38WHr every other day for two weeks.
Total Cost = $360.00
Total Weight = 7 lbs

Charge all 7 LiPo Battery Packs before leaving.
That gives you 7, maybe 14, days before needing any AC Power to recharge any LiPo Packs.
You can charge one LiPo Battery Pack in approx one hour whenever AC is available.
Your Notebook Computer should last you a week at 1 hour use per day without any recharge.

You might even be able to go 2 full weeks without AC recharge if ...
a) You only need to recharge your video camera, digital camera and Flashlight every other day
b) You only use the notebook for 30 minutes per day.

I think that is very possible.

You already have Rechargable AA Batteries, AA Batt. Chargers and AC Adapters for your Video Camera, Digital Camera, Notebook and Cell Phone. Right?

Does this meet your requirements of less than $600?
And it is less than 7 Lbs!

OK ?

Okay is a relative term. I'm hanging in there though. I'm sorry for the expressions of frustrations, but I promise you given a pot of coffee and a couple of hours, you would understand. But I don't want to go through all that here and now. All I want, is to get riding. Get free of my current bonds. Escape the non-stop rumble of $400 subwoofers rattling $200 cars across the street from 10am-3am and a few other reasons too, but... I have a bike. And I must and want to ride it west. I've mocked death my entire life. He can bring it, whenever and wherever, my time will come when it does. I'm haven't been afraid of death in a long time. I mean, I doubt you could understand this, but I would rather die than live where I am living much longer. It's so painful. I can't hardly sleep. I can't do the work I need to be doing at my house, because it sounds like a snoop dog concert half the day. Death right now would be a sweet quiet embrace. So whatever. I'll make it or I don't.

So after my 3 day class in electrical limitations, I have lowered my expectations to this:

For the LifePo4: All I need it to do is charge a 3.2V 760mAh and 3AA rechargeables 3-6 times between charges. 6 would be excellent, but 3 would suffice.

That's it. If I can do that for close to your price above, I'm good. I can get hard case for my computer and the batteries. The computer will just get charged at AC breaks. I would love to be able to write at night, but it's just too much money to keep it juiced to make it worth it. I will turn it on once or twice to empty out SD card from Camera every week. Then, I will do computer stuff when I have wifi, or at least a Ac outlet.

So what else do I need for power transfers? Battery plugs into charger, then inverter in the battery? I don't need protection circuits or regulators or something? Charge controllers? There isn't anything else I would need?

*Oh, and the battery expenses and my own considerations are keeping me from getting video cam. So its just the NBL4 3.2V 760mAh, 3 AA's, able to charge 3-6 times.

Nothing else needed?

If this can stay under 500 with extras, I think there will be some happy scorpion fans out there. I know my head would hurt a little less. Cause the more pictures I can provide, the better off my food situation will be. There is an almost direct connection, really, but again, not online.

Thanks, ryan

 

[Oznog]

I'm afraid that plan has a number of holes in it.
You'd need to buy many chargers, or spend 2.8hrs per batt on a charge. This would take days of access to an electrical outlet to swap out batts on chargers. So you'd need 7 chargers, and LiPo chargers shouldn't go on LiFePO4 anyways.

That pack does not have any charge controller associated with it, nor can one fitted on it.
The problem is this:
The pack's composed of 4 cells. The chemistry will be damaged, permanently, if any cell discharges below 2.5v. Now in theory, that could be 10v, and the inverter will probably shut down at 10.5v anyways. But the cells may not be balanced, so you could have 3 cells at 3v and one at 2.5v which makes 11.5v and the inverter will be fine with driving it into the ground. Unfortunately, this being "many small packs" as opposed to "one big pack", it's gonna be standard practice to run each one down completely and switch to another. Which basically guarantees this scenario.
Now I'm not sure if the bike packs have this sort of cutoff, but they at least have balancing which keeps one cell from lagging behind in the charge. And you will probably be able to avoid running it all the way down.

Running without a controller- people do it, but it can turn a very expensive batt to mush quite prematurely and performance is dicey.

And running each one down will confuse a smart charger for the device batt. Like a NiMH charger, you come back and find the 12v pack died and the inverter and charger are off. If you restart the charge cycle with them warm and maybe-fully-charged, that's kinda risky actually. I've melted down NiMH with a fast charger before where it missed the fact that they were already fully charged and overcharged them. Interrupting a smart charger's input power to swap main batt sources is a problem.


And the "many small packs" is actually more expensive. First off you've used a different standard to calculate watt-hrs, I used a 12v nominal instead of 12.8v to arrive at a watt-hr figure. Not a big difference either way but just apples and oranges, 36w-hr vs 38.4w-hr. Bike packs are just WAY cheaper, and you're not buying a crazy amount of chargers. But the fact that the "many small packs" are probably gonna get murdered by this sort of duty is the main flaw.

 

[Nomadinexile]

I'm afraid that plan has a number of holes in it.
You'd need to buy many chargers, or spend 2.8hrs per batt on a charge. This would take days of access to an electrical outlet to swap out batts on chargers. So you'd need 7 chargers, and LiPo chargers shouldn't go on LiFePO4 anyways.

That pack does not have any charge controller associated with it, nor can one fitted on it.
The problem is this:
The pack's composed of 4 cells. The chemistry will be damaged, permanently, if any cell discharges below 2.5v. Now in theory, that could be 10v, and the inverter will probably shut down at 10.5v anyways. But the cells may not be balanced, so you could have 3 cells at 3v and one at 2.5v which makes 11.5v and the inverter will be fine with driving it into the ground. Unfortunately, this being "many small packs" as opposed to "one big pack", it's gonna be standard practice to run each one down completely and switch to another. Which basically guarantees this scenario.
Now I'm not sure if the bike packs have this sort of cutoff, but they at least have balancing which keeps one cell from lagging behind in the charge. And you will probably be able to avoid running it all the way down.

Running without a controller- people do it, but it can turn a very expensive batt to mush quite prematurely and performance is dicey.

And running each one down will confuse a smart charger for the device batt. Like a NiMH charger, you come back and find the 12v pack died and the inverter and charger are off. If you restart the charge cycle with them warm and maybe-fully-charged, that's kinda risky actually. I've melted down NiMH with a fast charger before where it missed the fact that they were already fully charged and overcharged them. Interrupting a smart charger's input power to swap main batt sources is a problem.


And the "many small packs" is actually more expensive. First off you've used a different standard to calculate watt-hrs, I used a 12v nominal instead of 12.8v to arrive at a watt-hr figure. Not a big difference either way but just apples and oranges, 36w-hr vs 38.4w-hr. Bike packs are just WAY cheaper, and you're not buying a crazy amount of chargers. But the fact that the "many small packs" are probably gonna get murdered by this sort of duty is the main flaw.

And I'm back to a trumpet. Saints go marching in? anyone?

 

[summitville]

Nomad-In-Exil,

Yes, there was typo on the "Charger Description" - it is a Smart LiFePo4 Charger and the link now points to one of many Smart LiFePo4 Chargers available at the Battery website. So that is a non-issue!

The LiFeP04 Battery Pack DOES have an Internal Controller that prevents: Over-Charge (>15.2V), Over-Discharge (<10.0V), Over-Current (>7Amps) and Short Circuits. So, that is a non-issue!

The power available with seven @ 13 oz LiFePo4 Battery Packs is about 270Watt-Hours (theoretical max) - more than twice the power from an 8 Pound 10AH battery, a Big Heavy "Brick". 270Whr is enough power for the entire two week trip considering that you only need to recharge batteries for your Digital Photo Camera and UV Light. Therefore, no AC power is required during the entire trip unless you Over-Use the Notebook Computer. But you stated you can recharge the Computer after just 7 days. So once all 7 battery packs are charged, before you leave, you are free of AC power! Unless you are leaving tomorrow morning you do not need 7 Chargers to charge all 7 battery pack simultaneously - you have plenty of time recharge one battery pack at a time. So, that is a non-issue!

Some people try to make "mountains out of mole hills" and state what can't be accomplished. I don't let that kind of negativity slow me down. I try. I may fail. But I learn. I will try again until I succeed. Sometimes, insignificant esoteric issues must be ignored for the greater joy and fun of the project.

Yes, eventually there may be a Cell Imbalance that will lead to a slight reduction in Total Power from a battery pack but that will not stop you from taking hundreds of photo's of scorpions and arachnids within a two week period using the LiFePo4 Battery Packs. Yes, this is not a "Cadillac System". Yes, its not perfect. But for under $400 and under 7 Pounds it will work and your trip will be as sucessfull as you want to make it. Yes, the LiFePo4 batteries are more expensive than the 8 Pound 10AH Battery-Brick but the LiFeP04's only weigh 13 oz each, which are much easier to pack, carry, use and they produce more than double the power.

Given your Cost and Weight restrictions I thought 7 LiFePo4's and 1 Charger was a very reasonable solution.

*IF* you can get access to AC Power within 6 days you could possibly make it with just 2 LiFePo4 Packs and two Chargers for $161 and 4 Pounds! Run for two days on AA Batteries, On day 3 use 1st LiFeP04 pack to recharge AA's, run for two more days on AA Batteries, On day 5 use 2nd LiFePo4 pack to recharge AA's, run for two more days, On 6th Day recharge both LiFePo4 packs and Notebook pack in 3 hours. Very tight but possible.

Alternate option: "2 @ LiFePo4 Battery Packs" ...
QTY 2 @ LiFePo4 Smart Fast Charger, $22.00, 11 ounces = ($44.00 & 22 ounces)
Smart Charger (3.0 A) for 12.8V (4 cells) LiFePO4 Battery Pack, 110-240VAC, UL / CE listed

QTY 2 @ 38WHr LiFePo4 12.8V Battery Pack, 13 ounces, $46.00 = ($92.00 & 26 ounces)
LiFePO4 18650 Battery: 12.8V 3000 mAh (Side by Side, 38.4Wh, 7A rate )

QTY 1 @ 150 Watt Inverter, $25.00, 11 ounces
**broken link removed**

Total Power = 76 WHr (38W-Hr on day 3 and day 5)
Total Cost = $161.00
Total Weight = 4 lbs

You need to choose: 270WHr + $390 + 7lbs for 14Days vs. 76WHr + $161 + 4Lbs for 6 Days

The model of Battery Pack, Battery Charger and Inverter I selected are just typical components and are good estimates of what is available. By no means are you required to get exactly those models. Other models may be better.

I don't see how Solar Panels can actually help you on this trip since the panels are too large, too fragile, too costly and require you to be stationary for hours.

Just thinking out loud: Is there any way to adapt your Camera / UV Light to run directly from the 12.8V LiFePo4 battery pack via a cable to an Aux Power Jack? That would bypass the 20% losses from the Inverter & Battery Charger.

 

[summitville]

If I could only find a small, cheap, simple A123 Balancing Battery Charger then you could use two A123 Battery Packs. A 31W-Hr A123 Battery Pack has the unique ability to fully recharge in just 15-30 minutes vs. 2-3 hours for standard LiFePo4 battery packs. The charging current is like 10 Amps!!! And the 13.2Volt 2300mah A123 Battery Pack only weighs 6 ounces! The Cost is slightly more at $70 each.

 

[Nomadinexile]

Well, this is frustrating as heck, and I am embarrassed by the fact that at least for now, this has been a waste of time. My finances are taking a turn for the worse again. On a number of fronts. I want to do this, but financially right now, it's over. OH, I am going to ride. But I'm not taking anything with me now. Just black light, headlamp (Hardly need it), and cell phone that will be battery out and off most all of the time. I will hit libraries for email I guess. This trip is going to be one for my memories, not the world. It stinks. But I don't have a choice. I don't think I can even get a trumpet now. It's gonna be a while before things can get rolling for me. C'est la vie.

The good news and saving grace as far as your input of time goes, I am going to make this happen in the near future. I have a lot of possibilities if I can keep going and just get out there. I am hoping to be able to do something similar, here or overseas, within one year. 6 weeks and $1000 isn't going to cut it right now though. I still need to get extra tubes,liners and patches for the bike. I still have to get water jugs. Rain gear. Another tarp for bike. AA's and charger, Headlight for bike so I don't get messed with legally. I need at least $200 to eat on the way to tucson. I still need a bike multi-tool for repairs/adjustments. Extra brake pads that I am GOING to need after the mountains with my loaded bikes weight. I need new shoes. The rest is going to go into some stuff to make stencils I think, and some paint. I can make patches and sell them along the way, and where I am going. No heavy equipment, it's all cheap. I can do it wherever whenever. And I can make enough to eat, which is good. I should have some good seasonal work this fall, and if I can get up enough stock, I can sell a ton of patches this summer too at different events, Plus, I make leather halloween masks, if I can find somewhere to set up shop for a while, I should be able to come up just fine. So don't worry about me. I'm sorry if this ending isn't a happy one and all your efforts will be temporarily under utilized, but I will use it.. Sooner than later. I have some wonderful plans. Just got to get some kinks worked out first.

Thank you all so much for your time, sincerely, ryan


*edit* Just so I don't sound like a jerk for not using regular 1 gallon jugs of water:
regular 1 gallon water jugs "breathe". I am going to be carrying this water for a long time, in a hot dry desert. Half of it will evaporate before I drink it if I use those things. I will end up without enough water, and it would stink. I have to buy non-breathable jugs. just wanted to clarify that. A lot of my friends are giving me heck for things like this, so I feel like I have to explain everything. I can't wait to get out and ride......