Streetlights should be provided by Government run companies (in some countries)

[Flyback]

Perhaps if you can't build a cost-competitive LED streetlight given any real or imagined constraints, it's time to focus elsewhere.

Competing with countries that enslave their populus is always going to be very difficult. Chinese workers today are seen striking...because they haven't eaten for days.

the government running anything makes a complete mess of it, and is a VERY expensive and inefficient way to do anything.

Please read this....
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you will see that UK's policy of pure capitalism has put UK into a vicious downward spiral....soon Third world conditions will be in UK. Other countries manage to temper their capitalism, the UK does not...thats why we need intervention...and that can only come from the government...there is nowehere else.

the government running anything makes a complete mess of it,

The Chinese Government runs all Chinese industry, and they have progressed fantasticaly in just 20 years........i dont like the starvation-of-staff side of it, but they have worked miracles.

Perhaps if you can't build a cost-competitive LED streetlight given any real or imagined constraints, it's time to focus elsewhere.

We can very easily build streetlight drivers, just like the philips xitanium range, but we cant buy components as cheaply as a huge multinational.

 

[ronsimpson]

but the principle is that the government run company would train up loads of engineers

Here, this is done at the university level. Some money does to senior students why make something that is short on "engineering". Then they pay a consultant like me to make changes to get to a reliable product. Then the product goes to privet industry.

 

[OBW0549]

Why would you imagine you'd need 'loads'?, it's only a street light - a couple of engineers (or even one) would be all you'd need. However, as has been proved over and over again, the government running anything makes a complete mess of it, and is a VERY expensive and inefficient way to do anything.

Good point. There's also the small matter of manufacturing labor costs. What is this government-run company going to do, pay their assembly workers tuppence an hour? Unless they do, the Chinese products will be cheaper. Engineering costs on an extremely high-volume product are but a tiny part of the total unit cost.

This idea of establishing a government-run company to train loads of street light power supply design engineers is puerile to the point of being asinine.

 

[Flyback]

This idea of establishing a government-run company to train loads of street light power supply design engineers is puerile to the point of being asinine.

Thanks, but what would be your alternative plans to solve this.....
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the Chinese products will be cheaper

..good point, ...import tariffs are the only way round this, ...President Trump is already doing this -just recentrly declaring it...the EU already do it on a big scale.
Ill bet you there are no Chinese streetlights in Germany....in UK, there are loads and loads of them......the majority are Chinese.

This idea of establishing a government-run company to train loads of street light power supply design engineers is puerile to the point of being asinine

As you know, a streetlight power supply, is basically a power supply...its not terribly particular to streetlights, this isnt about streetlights.....because anybody who can design a 150w streetlight power supply could design power supplys for 100's of different sectors.......i just picked streetlights because the uk taxpayer happens to pay for them........pick another area if you wish.....i think it makes little difference, as long as the staff get trained up.

Why would you imagine you'd need 'loads'?, it's only a street light - a couple of engineers (or even one) would be all you'd need.

Maybe it wouldnt need loads, but thats missing the point....the point is that the UK (at least, and i suspect other countries aswell) government needs to train up engineers, and doing it in a way that produces actual products is a good idea......whatever those products are doesnt matter....but , for example, prefereably not something like DSP algorithms to detect submarines where-ever they are in the oceans is not a good idea, because its too complicated, and the students (or most of them) wouldnt be able to do it.

 

[shortbus=]

Thanks, but what would be your alternative plans to solve this.....
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Shut down that site?

My grandson is a journeyman electrician, he does a lot of refitting of street light type lighting, mostly for parking lots. And all of the power supplies in the units he installs are Chinese. The housings for some of them are made here in the States but not the power supplies.

As far as tariffs, who do you think those hurt? It's not the Chinese or any other country, it is the consumer/buyer of the item.

 

[ronsimpson]

The parts to make something (from China) have tariffs. But the finished product does not. So the US makers of product have a huge disadvantage. The only way out is move manufacturing off shore where you can get the China parts with out tax and then import the finished product. While Trump thinks he is saving/making jobs, the only jobs made are in China.

 

[JonSea]

Bunnie's Blog has a good explanation of how trump's tariffs encourage offshoring.

 

[unclejed613]

it doesn't take much digging to find that nationalized companies suffer from the same inefficiencies as the bureaucracy that runs it. there's no incentive to run the company efficiently, and there's no incentive for improving the product. the whole foundation of the idea of government run companies is that the company doesn't need to worry about their cash flow, because the money comes from the taxpayers. since the company would have a guaranteed "income", there's no motivation to innovate, or even to adhere to any production schedule. nationalized industries are also prone to cronyism and corruption. they are a drain on the economy because they use up taxpayer funding without making a product in adequate quantities or with any more than mediocre quality. nationalized businesses fail because there's no competition within their country, and cannot compete in an export market. look at the USSR and Warsaw Pact nations during the Cold War, and their standard of living. living conditions in those countries were awful. manufactured goods were of poor quality, outdated, and perpetually in short supply.

 

[Flyback]

yes but look at China, all Chinese industry is Government owned....what the Chinese have done over the last 20 years, their transformation to be the worlds biggest exporter by volume, is amazing.
Also, we in the UK can’t knock Russia….the Russians make the electric drives for their own warships…in UK we are not capable of doing that…the French do it for us….i used to work for the French company that does this.

Classic examples of the failure of Private companies are the ones that revamped the software system of the NHS in UK…they pilfered a fortune in fees from the UK government, and produced a mediocre product which recently got hacked by international hackers…..look at the private companies that did the rail work in London…Metronet….that was a disaster…spent billions more than they should have and were very late to deliver.

Look at the privatised rail companies in UK that had to get taken back into government control, because they were so poor.

As we all know, both Government run, and private companies, both have severe dificiencies….that is why a balance must be struck, and a good quantity of each should be employed.

An engineer working in a public company will do a great job, because they want the product on their CV. ….so that one day they can go into the private sector and perhaps earn that little bit more.

In World war Two, the Germans /British/ Yanks produced some of the greatest technology,…..all working under government control.

Also, look at your country’s entire education system…it is government controlled…..private companies could never be trusted to do this right. As they would simply and greedily try and direct it to serve their own particular purpose.

Also, look at the way the British and German pilots aquitted themselves in the Battle of Britain….the bravery of each was unbelievable…..all working under government control…look at the bravery of the Yank and Canadian atlantic conveyors, bringing stuff across the atlantic in 1942 and being attacked by U-boats…….do not underestimate the resolve of people to do fantastic things when working under government control when their backs are up against it…..and in UK, (and many other countries), our backs are up against it now….

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...look at the way the russians defended themselves in the battle of kursk...all working under government control............the german soldiers also, (they were forced into it remember)...also acted in superhuman ways.....all working under government control.

The Japanese too…all Japan companys are (behind the scenes) government controlled………I used to work for panasonic, and we were only allowed to pick from Japanese components….they didn’t have to be Panasonic, but did have to be Japanese made.

Also, look at Harvard engineering in UK….they made a fantastic range of streetlight led drivers, all with an enormous UK government grant…they would never have done this without the government help…as they would have just bought from China instead.
Too bad that it wasn’t done under tighter government control..because then we could have done it in a manner whereby multiple led driver designers were trained up, who could go into the wider economy afterwards and work as power supply designers for other british companies.

The most succesful tech companies in the world are government controlled…..take the American semiconductor designers…Texas, Analog devices, onsemi, etc etc……..they are USA government controlled….there is no way the USA government would allow them to be free private enterprises…..these industries form the heart of the American military machine. There is no way the Yank government would allow them to be free and private…because if they were they could get bought out by foreigners etc etc….or “influenced” to sell off some of their IP to foreigners etc etc
They are government controlled, and they are massively successful…I could say “I rest my case”

 

[ronsimpson]

most succesful tech companies in the world are government controlled

all Japan companys are (behind the scenes) government controlled

all working under government control.

all working under government control.

Me think your tin foil hat fell off and the space radiation is effecting you thinking.
To add to your list, here is some fuel:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conspiracy_theories

 

[Flyback]

Thanks, with President Trump (who has brought great success to the USA) getting in I thought there would be some resonance with this site on this issue…but it seems not…..i should go and find a British Electronics Forum…but there aren’t any.

By the way……you guys in other countries..look at this….in UK, one of the major streetlighting providers to UK is Schreder.com…they are headquartered in Brussels. The majority of the profits from Schreder obviously flow back to Belgium.. not to the UK. Not only this, but Schreder buys the streetlights from the Far East…and gets them manufactured there too….so here is an example of a foreign company acting as a middle man for streetlighting being brought in to the UK…….they take a big middle man mark-up….and all at the expense of the British taxpayer.

You couldn’t make it up. You really could not make this up……

I bet this doesn’t happen in Germany or USA.

 

[OBW0549]

The most succesful tech companies in the world are government controlled…..take the American semiconductor designers…Texas, Analog devices, onsemi, etc etc……..they are USA government controlled….there is no way the USA government would allow them to be free private enterprises…..these industries form the heart of the American military machine. There is no way the Yank government would allow them to be free and private…because if they were they could get bought out by foreigners etc etc….or “influenced” to sell off some of their IP to foreigners etc etc
They are government controlled, and they are massively successful…I could say “I rest my case”

That is, literally, the most insane thing I've read all year. And it's been a long year.

 

[Flyback]

They are government controlled in China and Russia...so to the good Lord i hope they are government controlled in USA too....because you guys hold an umbrella over us here in Blighty.
What would you do if tomorrow you found that texas.com had been flogged off to the Chinese?
Dont baulk.....this happened in UK.... our wonderful leaders sat back and watched us sell off the ARM holdings to Japan for 24 billion pounds....did nothing about it....the "Enterprise Act 2002" (UK legislation passed in 2002), allowed UK politicians to stand back and do nothing about it.

How much "sweeteners" did UK politicians receive in order to pass that legislation?

 

[JonSea]

......Thanks, with President Trump (who has brought great success to the USA).....

I don't know what you are smoking, but it's way too much if you believe this to be true. Tariffs may have helped a small number of businesses, but it has put many out of business or encouraged them to offshore as was explained in the Bunnie's Blog I posted. In the end, tariffs are a tax all consumers pay.

Regarding the education system.... In the US, colleges and universities are both publically and privately owned. In primary schools, the same holds true, with private schools largely being a bastion of white male privilege.

So many conspiracy theories arising from a crappy streetlight design.....

 

[Flyback]

tariffs are a tax all consumers pay.

Thanks, ok, so what about this....we buy streetlights from China, with no tariffs...but the purchase is done by the government, and the money thus saved goes to the tax system, where the public services and education system can benefit from it.

Anyway, it has just dawned on me that readers of this forum are American citizens.....and of course, the USA doesnt need this kind of government run stuff, -you are doing very well as you are. This is particular to the UK...which is committing industrial suicide as per the site...
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[Nigel Goodwin]

Anyway, it has just dawned on me that readers of this forum are American citizens..

That's as wrong as everything else you've posted in this thread, these forums are international, with a considerable number of UK members.

 

[OBW0549]

He's no idea what's going on anywhere

Based on the utter nonsense he's posted here, ignorance is the least of his problems.

 

[unclejed613]

The most succesful tech companies in the world are government controlled…..take the American semiconductor designers…Texas, Analog devices, onsemi, etc etc……..they are USA government controlled….there is no way the USA government would allow them to be free private enterprises…..these industries form the heart of the American military machine. There is no way the Yank government would allow them to be free and private…because if they were they could get bought out by foreigners etc etc….or “influenced” to sell off some of their IP to foreigners etc etc

actually, they are privately owned. they DO bid for government contracts, and compete heavily for them. they are not government owned (that would be socialism), and they don't have government employees or government representatives embedded in their leadership and controlling how the business is run (that would be fascism). there are some companies that exclusively provide goods and services for government contracts, and work closely with the government (Sandia Labs which makes physics packages for nuclear weapons) but even these companies are privately owned. any US citizen or company can bid for government contracts BTW.

An engineer working in a public company will do a great job, because they want the product on their CV. ….so that one day they can go into the private sector and perhaps earn that little bit more.

actually human nature doesn't work that way. human nature gravitates towards putting in the minimum effort for the maximum of reward, especially if that reward is guaranteed because it's source is taxation.

In World war Two, the Germans /British/ Yanks produced some of the greatest technology,…..all working under government control.

that was wartime and technical development of things like RADAR, high tech aircraft, communication systems, and nuclear weapons were needed to win the war. Germany already had operational control of it's industries, because fascism preceded the war.

yes but look at China, all Chinese industry is Government owned....what the Chinese have done over the last 20 years, their transformation to be the worlds biggest exporter by volume, is amazing.

actually, China privatized most of the industries there, and that's what has turned their economy around. the Chinese government does collect 50% of the profits as taxes, so the government's policies still suck.


the flip side of nationalizing industries is that the money to run a company comes out of the wallets of taxpayers. how would you like to get your paycheck at the end of the week, and see that the government has taxed you 50 to 90 percent because the government needs money to run all of your country's factories? it would be kinda like Venezuela... socialists seem to think the economy is like a perpetual motion machine... maybe socialism should be compared to one, since it behaves exactly like all of the overunity machines ever made, because it eventually runs down and stops.

 

[Flyback]

Thanks,

Only countries with much wealth can operate with all their industry totally privatised. (even then, as I discussed before, the government secretly has control over certain key industries, such as those that are key to defence, (otherwise, human nature would mean the heads of those industries would sell them off overseas, make a fortune, and run away somewhere nice.)

When a country has wealth below a certain “critical mass”, then total capitalism and free market operation becomes impossible….no matter how bad the “government run” alternative may be.

Certainly in UK at least, the free market approach is leading UK into the Third World….
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…However better the “free market economy” sounds, it is not working In the UK.

If the UK does not find a “government run” alternative to its current approach, then the UK will be a Third world country in a decade.

 

[JonSea]

You sir are rather confused - short on facts and long on conspiracy theories.