Testing the waters--Who's interested?

[NorthGuy]

As Rowlings brough her Herry Potter book to one publisher and he didn't accept, but the other one did ...

 

[Tony Stewart]

I thought PIC compilers for C were free
https://www.microchip.com/Developmenttools/ProductDetails.aspx?PartNO=SW006011

 

[Overclocked]

I was reading the other day that the Arduino was supposed to be PIC based - but MicroChip were unwilling to provide a full compiler for free, so the AVR was chosen instead as a free compiler was available.

I've only played with the Arduino VERY briefly (because I've become busy developing a PIC product since they came), but the interface is certainly pretty crude

However, for the cost you can't really go wrong.

Ive read that as well. It almost seems like Atmel was pushing for the Arduino to take hold in the hobbyist market. Before the Arduino it was pretty much PICs or basic stamp (and propellers thrown in the mix from time to time). I honestly dont see the grab of it being open source. I could make a library in C and release it as open source. I highly doubt their intended audience will recompile the source for Arduino itself either.

However, when the time comes I will probably use Arduino (probably the ChipKit instead) to introduce my future children (which are not yet conceived yet) into electronics and programming. Programming itself yeilds to great critical thinking skills outside of the box.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

I thought PIC compilers for C were free
https://www.microchip.com/Developmenttools/ProductDetails.aspx?PartNO=SW006011

Only the most limited versions, the Ardinuo compiler is better featured and also open source.

 

[DerStrom8]

Using the Arduino IDE is a terrible way to teach students (and children) programming. It's a horribly butchered version of C that when someone learns with it and then goes to a regular microcontroller/IDE, they have no idea what they're looking at. In my opinion it's far better to learn how microcontrollers actually work, which you can't do with an Arduino. I have seen this many, many times when I was working at the university. One professor had his students learning on an Arduino, and another professor (the next semester) tried teaching them how to use the TI MSP430. About 75% of the class was failing because they had no idea how a microcontroller actually worked, because they'd only learned on an Arduino which has little to no teaching capabilities whatsoever.

That's my $0.02 on Arduino.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Using the Arduino IDE is a terrible way to teach students (and children) programming. It's a horribly butchered version of C that when someone learns with it and then goes to a regular microcontroller/IDE, they have no idea what they're looking at. In my opinion it's far better to learn how microcontrollers actually work, which you can't do with an Arduino. I have seen this many, many times when I was working at the university. One professor had his students learning on an Arduino, and another professor (the next semester) tried teaching them how to use the TI MSP430. About 75% of the class was failing because they had no idea how a microcontroller actually worked, because they'd only learned on an Arduino which has little to no teaching capabilities whatsoever.

That's my $0.02 on Arduino.

I must say in many respects I completely agree - which is why I've always strongly advised learning assembler first, then move to a high level language once you've understood the processor you're using.

I ordered some Arduino's, because they were cheap , because they have cheap and interesting shields (such as the Ethernet shield), and because I'm wanting to try and learn C yet again - and while it's not pure C, it'll help me get in the right 'mind set'. However, as it happens, I've become involved in a PIC project which I decided to use XC8 for (thanks to Ian's conversions of my tutorials) and not had time to play with the Arduino's yet - other than making sure they work and running various of the demo programmes.

 

[Ian Rogers]

Arduino is more object programming... C but not quite C++.. I would be tempted to download the free AVR studio and use the Arduino as a development board rather than the hobbyist board that it currently is..

I have several chipkit32's and a couple of olimex pic32 boards... I have erased them entirley and use them as dev boards... In fact, as you know Nigel.. I have adopted the pinguino micro as is and integrated into my system...

 

[cowboybob]

I ordered some Arduino's, because they were cheap , because they have cheap and interesting shields (such as the Ethernet shield), and because I'm wanting to try and learn C yet again - and while it's not pure C, it'll help me get in the right 'mind set'.

I'm with Nigel.

The Arduino, for all its faults (and certainly not meant for commercial/industrial products), nonetheless makes a dandy hobbyist/get-back-in-the-game C (of whatever flavor) learning platform.

(A tad off the thread's context - my apologies Matt)

 

[DerStrom8]

(A tad off the thread's context - my apologies Matt)

No worries, I helped bring it off-topic myself

 

[Overclocked]

I'm with Nigel.

The Arduino, for all its faults (and certainly not meant for commercial/industrial products), nonetheless makes a dandy hobbyist/get-back-in-the-game C (of whatever flavor) learning platform.

(A tad off the thread's context - my apologies Matt)

Recent hackaday posts suggest someone out there is looking to make the arduino integrated into a PLC type system. Uhhhh...Im sorry but you can get cheap PLC's from Automation direct for $75 that will do more than an Arduino can ever hope. Ladder logic Isnt that hard, and if you can program in C (or any language), you can most likely do simple ladder logic (which is basically a bunch of "if" statements over and over).

That Microstick II is still sitting on my bench waiting to be used. I want a chipkit, and there isnt much difference in terms of hardware, its the software. For me, I have a lack of time and dont want to spend weeks on programming a display driver. Most arduino libraries are compatible with the chipkit, and for me thats part of the allure.

When I go to makerfaire, I still dont understand the allure of Arduino. A lot of projects and 3D printers use it, but I have been seeing a few more projects that use TI micro's come in (not even plain Atmel's, arduino's in general.). Very VERY rarely do we see someone using a PIC micro. I keep telling myself I'll set up a booth one day. Apples to oranges though. It does take a bit of skill to get stuff on a Micro to work, with or without debugging.

 

[granddad]

My solution was a PIC sandwich , dsPIC33EV256GM104 on a TQFP adapter all the caps / Vdd ,Vss ICSP connections on a perf- board below , most pins available will go straight into BB . 5 volt I/O @ 70 MIPS ... cost <10 GBP

Edit ... The 2 resistors on PK3 pin 1 and 2 (reset/Vdd) are shown incorrectly ( see comment below) .

 

[DerStrom8]

My solution was a PIC sandwich , dsPIC24EV256GM104 on a TQFP adapter all the caps / Vdd ,Vss ICSP connections on a perf- board below , most pins available will go straight into BB . 5 volt I/O @ 70 MIPS ... cost <10 View attachment 91653 GBP

How did you get the PIC, components, and board all purchased/manufactured for <$10?

EDIT: Wait, was the TQFP adapter pre-manufactured? Or did you make that yourself?

 

[granddad]

Hi .. The pic was from Farnell aproximatly 5 GBP , 44 - TQFP .. UK Hobbytronics 2 GBP + caps and strip board... I'm just amazed at the PIC24 family works well with MPLABX and PK3 . Wish my C was up to scratch.

 

[jpanhalt]

Looks nice. I am curious about the two resistors from the PK3. It looks like you have a divider between Vpp and Vdd.

As for decoupling caps and similar required caps, one of the pleasant surprises from a recent development/adapter board I got was that they were included. I don't seen any reason they shouldn't be included.

John

 

[granddad]

John... Well spotted ... I took picture when I had the resistors the wrong way round , this was corrected ... now PK3-1 100R to Memclr pin and Vdd 10k to memclr pin... ( sorry no prize )

 

[NorthGuy]

Here's my PIC test boards for PIC24 series (left to right 100-pin, 44-pin, 28-pin, 20-pin, 18-pin, and 14-pin), also little boards to add crystals:

And here are the smaller ones populated with ZIFs:

 

[DerStrom8]

Here's my PIC test boards for PIC24 series (left to right 100-pin, 44-pin, 28-pin, 20-pin, 18-pin, and 14-pin), also little boards to add crystals:

View attachment 91711

And here are the smaller ones populated with ZIFs:

View attachment 91712

Very nice! Great work!

 

[DerStrom8]

Just thought I'd give you guys a glimpse of Rev 4, which includes a Micro-B USB programming interface and a bootloader:



Every time I look at it I notice something new that needs fixing, so what you see is not necessarily what you get

 

[Overclocked]

I dont see any Cowbells. Needs moar cowbell.

 

[BlackQueen]

Great thread, thanks for share