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Is this project still alive? It does look interesting. I've used the Arduino a lot just for the fun of it really. Anything i did more serious i used a PIC of some sort, so i'd be happy to see a dev board similar to Arduino but with a PIC instead, and not too expensive.
First, does it have a USB programming interface that goes with MPLab or no?
Second, dont the PIC chips do well with a couple isolation resistors for programing using three wire or something like that (it's been a while now)? With the resistors, anyone can hook up and program on the fly without a USB interface, just their typical in circuit programmer...but the isolation resistors should be on board for ease of use.
Third, a version with a DIP socket would be great (price wise), even at the cost of larger size, although the small SMD version is great too.
So the real question then is, how much do you intend to sell them for? When i ask i ask about the two main versions and USA customers:
1. SMD already installed, isolation resistors installed, maybe headers installed.
2. DIP package bare bones (no parts, just the PC board) which would be great.
You could also juggle the add-on's like a crystal for example, either wired to the chip (just leave it out if not needed) or jumper holes for selection.
Somewhat. I still have the initial batch of boards and would be willing to pick them up again.
It does look interesting. I've used the Arduino a lot just for the fun of it really. Anything i did more serious i used a PIC of some sort, so i'd be happy to see a dev board similar to Arduino but with a PIC instead, and not too expensive.
That was partially the reason behind this. I have never cared much for Arduino, so I decided that an alternative using a PIC and the software I was used to would be nice.
First, does it have a USB programming interface that goes with MPLab or no?
There are two versions in this thread: Rev 3 and Rev 4. Rev 3 uses the standard 6-pin ICSP connection to the PICkit (not included). Rev 3 is still a concept design at this point, but it uses a bootloader and a direct USB connection. Microchip offers a free bootloader program (AN851) that I planned to explore, if this project were to get off the ground.
Second, dont the PIC chips do well with a couple isolation resistors for programing using three wire or something like that (it's been a while now)? With the resistors, anyone can hook up and program on the fly without a USB interface, just their typical in circuit programmer...but the isolation resistors should be on board for ease of use.
Rev 1 of this board is one I designed for my own personal use (never intended for release) and was far from perfect. However, it did use a DIP PIC18F1330 with an 18-pin socket. I liked having a removable uC but the board was very large and bulky, and decided to downsize it and use SMD parts instead.
So the real question then is, how much do you intend to sell them for? When i ask i ask about the two main versions and USA customers:
1. SMD already installed, isolation resistors installed, maybe headers installed.
2. DIP package bare bones (no parts, just the PC board) which would be great.
The SMD type without the USB connector costs approximately $10 to make, so already it's going to be more expensive than the Arduino Tiny. If there was a high demand I could order more parts at a time and get a price break, but I don't think it'll be that popular of a product. The SMD type with a USB connector and bootloader is probably going to cost $15-$20 to make, so that would be even more pricey.
You could also juggle the add-on's like a crystal for example, either wired to the chip (just leave it out if not needed) or jumper holes for selection.
This is a great suggestion, and I think someone mentioned the idea earlier in this thread. If I could find a crystal small enough I may be able to work it onto the board, but I'd need a complete re-design to fit it. Right now all of the pins are broken out to headers, so you can always add an external crystal. Unfortunately adding it externally would mean it would sit a fair distance from the chip, which of course is not ideal. Again, it would require another re-design, which is not necessarily out of the question.
Since it sounded so interesting i thought i would throw in a couple ideas to help make it better.
A couple other quick questions...
The AN851 is about a serial interface isnt it? That means an RS232 port for programming, which is ok with me for one, but it's not a USB connection. A USB connection would require on board USB to serial adapter or PIC internal program to do this, which i am not sure is possible yet. I havent explored this in depth though so i could be wrong here. As i also said though, serial is fine for me. If you could get it to work with USB directly that would be a big selling point i think because many of the Arduino products work directly from USB and people tend to like that because they all have USB ports.
Working from memory, the so called, "isolation resistors" are resistors that are installed right onto the main circuit board for many products. They have nothing to do with the post programming work function of the board. The only time they make a difference is when programming. They connect from the physical pin of the PIC chip to the real world, so anything that communicates with the chip after programing (using ICSP) has to cope with these resistors, but that usually isnt a problem. A secondary header which we might call the programming header would connect DIRECTLY to the required programming pins, so during programming the programer board would be able to take control of the PIC chip regardless of whatever else is connected to the chip for real world use. So say we had some sort of controller board using a PIC, the i/o pins would run to the external world (soldered directly for a permanent installation). The external world signals might run from 0 to +5v, but because of the isolation resistors the chip would never see any of those signals because there would be a resistor between the PIC pin and the real world, and the programmer board would be connected DIRECTLY to the PIC pins via the programming header.
Obviously this would not work for every signal application, but how hard is it to jumper out a few resistors (maybe another option).
Options are usually attractive to buyers because then they can envision lots of usage scenarios. Of course it is up to you which ones you want to implement and which ones that can exist based on pure documentation. Oh yeah, good documentation is nice too
Another option would of course be different part number PIC chips.
Since you can design boards then i would think you have lots of options for doing this kind of thing.
I guess i saw a future for something like this because i've always liked the PIC chips too and so the easier they are to use the better for me, and i would believe for others too then.
Yeah i guess the initial cost would be much higher than a typical Arduino board. What about the cost of barebones boards say with DIP chip package layouts? That's something that a lot of people can deal with.
Arduino use a bootloader Pic can use a bootloader too the only reason arduino used a AVR atmega Is because there was a free C compiler for it and, no one at the that time would let them use there C compiler for Pic chips freely. Now year's later you can run arduino on lot's of chip's
Any thing that can use a boot loader can be used with a Arduino Ide if you want to write
some files to use it.
Arduino use a bootloader Pic can use a bootloader too the only reason arduino used a AVR atmega Is because there was a free C compiler for it and, no one at the that time would let them use there C compiler for Pic chips freely. Now year's later you can run arduino on lot's of chip's
Any thing that can use a boot loader can be used with a Arduino Ide if you want to write
some files to use it.
The AN851 is about a serial interface isnt it? That means an RS232 port for programming, which is ok with me for one, but it's not a USB connection. A USB connection would require on board USB to serial adapter or PIC internal program to do this, which i am not sure is possible yet.
an environment based on the original Arduino™ IDE modified to support PIC32 that also still supports ...
And pic 18 and no ardunio don't have to use USB and lots of the clone boards don't they use the chip I post above to load there code to the boot loader
chipKIT Uno 32 has all of this on a arduino board layout and runs the ide . I gave it a whirl and got me into C(++) but the arduino ide IMHO is a dog.....
I posted tons of details on here Start here 8 bit chips **broken link removed**
This is the 32 bit chips **broken link removed** **broken link removed**
Anyone check out the Microchip "Curiosity" dev boards yet? They are more for up to 20 pin packages though. Looks like integrated programming and debug too. $20 each.
I saw those, and they dont have support for many PICs (such as the 18F series). I think we could come up with something better. It also received a lot of hate on hack a day from users for some reason..
I am always bewildered how someone can give a "1-star" to a product when they bought the wrong thing. The product release for Curiosity clearly states it is for 16F, and some 12F, 8-bit products (**broken link removed**):
Curiosity is a cost-effective, fully integrated 8-bit development platform targeted at first-time users,
Microchip even gives a list of the chips covered. I find your comment completely off base. It's like slamming the Ford Fusion because it didn't finish in the top 5 at the NASCAR Daytona 500.
Because like every thing some one else started it then used someone else's ideas.
It's like some stuff I fulled with in the first part of the 90s it took open ideas and turned it into a money maker only a small few where happy
In my personal opinion, I think a Microstick II would be better. 16 Bit and 32 Bit PICs in DIP form. I still use 8 Bit PICs. I havent found a use for 32 Bits yet.
I am always bewildered how someone can give a "1-star" to a product when they bought the wrong thing. The product release for Curiosity clearly states it is for 16F, and some 12F, 8-bit products (**broken link removed**):
Microchip even gives a list of the chips covered. I find your comment completely off base. It's like slamming the Ford Fusion because it didn't finish in the top 5 at the NASCAR Daytona 500.
I decided to take a stab at the Arduino Nano. These have the same functionality of the Uno but on a much smaller board size less than an inch wide and less than 2 inches long.
Program with the Arduino IDE.
Too cheap to pass up, maybe 5 bucks for one in some places.
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