Why can't we compare electromagnetic theory of propogation with this? won't this provide an answer?
What physical phenomenon is being propagated and what physical property is sensed or measured either by an ear, or microphone or other instrument?
It is impossible to determine a bias following the motion of a single molecule. There must be a statistically large enough sample in order to have a bias, i.e. mass velocity. A spacially varying mass velocity must lead to changes in density.
Beats exist because of superposition, a property of linear systems.
Superposition principle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
As long as Crashsite thinks monkey is a lizard there is no point in theorizing how sound propagates.
crashsite said:I was thinking about thinking about sound on the macro level and I can see how easily it can interfere with the kind of thinking that needs to be done to try to get a grip on the basic mechanism of it.
A speaker or other disturber will also add some energy to the air but, generally it will be small. I propose to ignore it for all except the most powerful sounds. the conduction of heat will be slow compared to the speed sound propagates and the radient heat will be slight and most wont be absorbed by the air near the speaker, anyway.
I have been asking for a single restriction on the thinking on his issue. When we are done, the theory we suggest must results in sound as understood at the macro level. To do that we must understand what that is.
Yes, I said to FULLY understand sound propagation, and I stand by that comment, admitting that I do not FULLY understand it (by fully I mean completely describe the continuous motion of individual particles and the forces between them).
As a side note, you keep using instant-by-instant, however to me this implies discrete time stepping and I believe you actually mean continuously. This is kind of a math term so I’m sorry, but I believe it much more accurately describes what you mean and what is going on.
Conceptually that should be sufficient (for a gas), however I believe this is what the majority of the information presented here is trying to do and you are dismissing all of it. I would also like to mention that the spring mass model is very much a Newtonian system.
I’m not sure whether your arguing against standing waves in general or just in sound/pressure....
I think you misunderstand thermal energy (I believe this is what you mean when you say “heat”, if not the speaker may be cooled so that it imparts zero or even negative heat into the air, and you may ignore the rest of this post). I said it in my original post and I will say it again: Sound is thermal energy (molecular energy relative to each other), therefore you cannot ignore the energy imparted by the speaker (otherwise there would be no sound).
Hi all,
I see this is a rather heated topic so I thought I might share a simulation demonstrating the propagation of sound on the molecular level.
I think its pretty cool because you can see how compression of the molecules causes longitudinal waves of pressure while the molecules themselves remain roughly in the same region of space, which is the sound we hear.
Hope it helps.
PhET Wave Interference - Electric field, Interference, Diffraction, Double Slit
- run the simulation
- click the sound tab at the top left
- click particles on the right
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