Why Won't my Latch Circuits Work?

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alexb1406

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Hi folks, I know the answer is probably staring me in the face, I have some very basic knowledge - I mean VERY basic! - and as the saying goes this can be dangerous so I guess I've done something really daft - humour me if you must and I can trundle off in shame and not speak about this to anyone but I need to make a latch circuit to power up unlatched and then latch with a high pulse from a 4001 monostable. This is part of an intermittent wiper delay that I am making specifically for an older series II Jag that has a rather complex system on it - I know I can probably buy kits to do this but firstly I don't think they will work properly as it is an unconventional design and I would like to use the original stalk switch to operate it, and secondly it'll be much more fun to make my own! The switch is unusual in that it has a separate park position that reverses the wiper motor and parks the blades lower down on the screen. In normal use the blades do not come to rest in the lower position. The plan is that to switch the intermittent circuit on I will flick the wiper switch into park and then to the single wipe within a predetermined time (set by the 4001 monostable). This will then trigger the latch that I am having trouble with and switch on a relay to work the intermittent circuit.

I've tried using a pnp/npn setup and also a 4001 but neither will stay in the unlatched state. Using transistors I have played around with various biasing configurations and although I can switch from one to another they will not stay in that state when the switch is opened. (I forgot to put the switches on the diagram but I am simply shorting out the emitter/base connections).

Using a 4001 (I've chosen this as I have a few lying about) it powers in the latched state and I have the same problem as with the transistor circuit. The only time I can get it to work properly is if I disconnect the output load altogether (the BC639 and relay).

Anyone have any ideas? I'll try to attach a scan of the two circuits I am using but I read somewhere that they may have to go through a moderator first as I am new here.
 

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Hi Ken, it is meant to be an alternative to the first - another method I tried, but I just realised I missed a few bits as I drew it in a hurry! Oops!

I've redrawn it with the missing bits - hopefully this will make more sense! I've tried various different resistor values, even tried connecting the collector/bases directly without the 10k resistors but all that does is pull down the pnp emitter voltage. Depending on the value of R1, currently 1.2K, the circuit may power up either latched or unlatched, but I am unable to make it switch - as soon as I let go of S1 or remove the high input trigger it reverts back to its previous state.
 

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Is this what you need?

*When power up turn off the relay
*when high pulse present turn on relay continuosely.

* when you want to turn off the relay again?By turning off power?
 
It seems that you are trying to make an SCR-equivalent circuit.

Ken
 

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Is this what you need?

*When power up turn off the relay

Yes, relay must be off when power is applied

*when high pulse present turn on relay continuosely.

Yes, high pulse will only be present for one or two seconds but relay must remain on.

* when you want to turn off the relay again?By turning off power?

This is going to be the next problem! The switch I would like to use to switch off is the 'park' switch on the stalk. This is a ground connection, normally closed push type switch that returns to closed when released. I am using this to activate the monostable so I can't simply connect the whole circuit through this as the monostable won't work - that would be the too easy!
 
Many moons ago I made a intermittent wiper delay using a unijunction transistor (which is an old device type but provide a simple way to generate a pulse with a long delay, that is still available) and an SCR in parallel with the wiper park switch. When the unijuction fires after a delay (adjustable with a pot), it triggers the SCR to turn on the wiper motor. The SCR is reset when the park switch closes (to ground) at the start of the sweep but the sweep continues until the park switch opens.
 
It seems that you are trying to make an SCR-equivalent circuit.

Ken

I think so! Just googled SCR and you learn something new every day - I said my knowledge was basic!

Problem is I don't have one handy but it looks just like what I need - meanwhile I will go and play with the other circuit you provided, thank you - Would that work with BC639 and BC640?
 

Sounds good but I don't think it will work on this car as the wiper system is very complex (what else would you expect on a Jag and Lucas?!?). There are two park switches in the motor - it's a reversing motor and it has a park switch for each direction of travel! Not just that, but the switches are sometimes ground and sometimes live!
 
I can't say absolutely, but probably will work.

If the disable switch lifts the ground connection just move SW1 to the ground (-) side of the battery.

Ken

Yes it does! Thanks guys for all your help. I have already tried a setup connecting the emitters and bases directly together and that didn't work. Not sure why but this one does so I am grateful. I will probably try to change to an SCR at some point - do you have a suitable type for this application? The relay draws roughly 0.15 amps - I would like plenty of headroom though!

I have another project in mind but I'll save it for another day...let's complete this one first!
 
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Where are you in the world? From what vendors would you be buying? It helps in providing available components recommendations. (Add your location to your profile.)

ken
 
Thanks Ken, I'll wait till next time I have an order to put in - hardly seems worth it for 33p! My normal suppliers do these (2N5064 that are rated at 200V) and can supply them as single items.
 
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